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Word on the street is that the low filecoin price, and low future price prospects mean that this crypto isn’t profitable for miners and will eventually fail. Th

Word on the street is that the low filecoin price, and low future price prospects mean that this crypto isn’t profitable for miners and will eventually fail. The coin economics also mean that VCs vest slowly, with constant selling pressure on a coin that no one uses. The economics don’t work out, it’s a money scheme

davidatbu 4y ago
Interestingly, @sub7 had the opposite impression (if I understood them correctly), which is that miners got compensated way too much. But they also concluded that FileCoin a money grab. As a web3 newbie trying to tell apart the wheat from the chaff, I'd love to see more explanation or evidence for either your or @sub7's claims. Do you have any pointers?
- hnthrow1010 4y ago
  There's no wheat. The entirety of web3 is a series of ponzi-like schemes to pump up the price of some token and dump it on unsuspecting users. When someone is trying to sell you a currency, they're not trying to sell you a product. They're trying to get you to inflate the value of it so the miners can realize their profits, while you get stuck holding the tokens that will then change value randomly. And even if there were any merit to any of the claims made by web3 companies (there isn't), by definition most of these web3 projects/startups would fail and collapse to nothing anyway, making the token worthless, and losing everything the holders have. Payments for IPFS storage isn't a horrible idea, but it needs to be done in a normal way using real money, without the speculative tokens.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    Fundamentally, Web3 is a suite of technologies to solve problems that are irrelevant to most people. But the technology is cool, interesting and new. And so in order to make the business successful for them and their investors they do whatever is legally okay. Which is right now: anything. Hence why we see rug pulling, insider trading, money laundering, ponzi schemes, fraud and ultimately gambling.
    - hnthrow1010 4y ago
      Fundamentally, Web3 can't actually solve any of those problems because the technology doesn't actually do anything, besides money laundering, and siphoning money away to miners and whales. The technology also isn't new, distributed databases are several decades old, proof of work was originally developed for email spam filtering, etc. I've found it only "cool and interesting" from a purely entertainment perspective, like if the money was fake video game money and you didn't actually care what happened to it. But even then it gets boring real quick because you'll easily find that the trading patterns are all either completely random or are heavily manipulated. In the real world, all those things you described are illegal in most places. So the only way they've gotten around that is by setting up this fake system, lying to people and telling them it's real and charging them real money to use it, and then when they get pressed by regulators they admit it's fake again.
      - ETH_start 4y ago
        Web3 provides distributed consensus that enforces the immutability of a virtual machine protocol. This is a new feature set that was not available before. In practice it has enabled the emergence of a core set of highly reputable DeFi apps - MakerDAO, Compound, Aave and Uniswap - that have managed billions of dollars worth of digital assets and not malfunctioned in the recent market crash, while several centralized lenders and investment funds did. >>and then when they get pressed by regulators they admit it's fake again. This has never happened AFAIK. The opposite - of projects taking the credible position that they don't control the protocol because it is autonomous and immutable - has happened, as in the case of Uniswap Labs vis-a-vis the Uniswap protocol. For decentralized/genuine DeFi apps, like MakerDAO, Compound, Aave and Uniswap, as opposed to centralized ones like Ripple, I don't expect this position to ever be challenged by regulatory agencies, because in reality, these protocols cannot be shut down or changed by any party.
  - davidatbu 4y ago
    Sincerely appreciate your comments! Specifically about FileCoin, if I understand you correctly, your only gripe is that it uses cryptocurrency right? If I got that wrong, let me know.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > There's no wheat. The entirety of web3 is a series of ponzi-like schemes to pump up the price of some token and dump it on unsuspecting users. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. > Payments for IPFS storage isn't a horrible idea, but it needs to be done in a normal way using real money, without the speculative tokens. That's what Filecoin is attempting to do. That's the wheat that you declared to be nonexistent, on the basis of arbitrarily deeming speculation on cryptocurrencies to be bad while ignoring the rampant speculation on "real money" (see also: the very existence of forex markets).
TheIronYuppie 4y ago
Can't respond to "word on the street" (i guess my streets have different words?), but I am more than happy to respond to any detailed questions you have! There's also a ton of public research (for example https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1546894197671821320 https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1546894197671821320 - amount stored on Filecoin grew at 128% quarter over quarter). Disclosure: I am co-director of Research Development at Protocol Labs.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- greatpostman 4y ago
  Appreciate your response and my apologies if I am incorrect. But what I have heard is the following: There’s constant large amount of coins printed for the team and their VC’s in which they can sell on a daily basis to dump the market. Also new coins being owed to the miners are periodically unlocked as well (in FIL it’s like a ponzi, you gotta wait for your rewards to be unlocked after many months to take everything out). Basically too many coins can be sold daily, very little demand, real use case, or hype.
  - TheIronYuppie 4y ago
    Unfortunately, I can't comment on the price of the coin - it's determined by the market, and we/the Filecoin community is just focused on delivering useful stuff. If you want market speculation, there's tons of sites out there that will do that for you. As far as the people actually using it, you can check it out here[1] We have about 18 Exabytes of space on the network, adding nearly 2+ PiB a day of new deals (people storing things). You can see a bunch of the important datasets being added here[2], replicated, universally available and uncensorable. If you see value in that, that's great! If you don't and have more feedback, we're here to help! If you hate us or want another solution, that's cool too! [1] https://filfox.info/en https://filfox.info/en [2] https://slingshot.filecoin.io/explore https://slingshot.filecoin.io/explore
    - 4y ago

davidatbu 4y ago

Interestingly, @sub7 had the opposite impression (if I understood them correctly), which is that miners got compensated way too much. But they also concluded that FileCoin a money grab. As a web3 newbie trying to tell apart the wheat from the chaff, I'd love to see more explanation or evidence for either your or @sub7's claims. Do you have any pointers?

hnthrow1010 4y ago
There's no wheat. The entirety of web3 is a series of ponzi-like schemes to pump up the price of some token and dump it on unsuspecting users. When someone is trying to sell you a currency, they're not trying to sell you a product. They're trying to get you to inflate the value of it so the miners can realize their profits, while you get stuck holding the tokens that will then change value randomly. And even if there were any merit to any of the claims made by web3 companies (there isn't), by definition most of these web3 projects/startups would fail and collapse to nothing anyway, making the token worthless, and losing everything the holders have. Payments for IPFS storage isn't a horrible idea, but it needs to be done in a normal way using real money, without the speculative tokens.
- threeseed 4y ago
  Fundamentally, Web3 is a suite of technologies to solve problems that are irrelevant to most people. But the technology is cool, interesting and new. And so in order to make the business successful for them and their investors they do whatever is legally okay. Which is right now: anything. Hence why we see rug pulling, insider trading, money laundering, ponzi schemes, fraud and ultimately gambling.
  - hnthrow1010 4y ago
    Fundamentally, Web3 can't actually solve any of those problems because the technology doesn't actually do anything, besides money laundering, and siphoning money away to miners and whales. The technology also isn't new, distributed databases are several decades old, proof of work was originally developed for email spam filtering, etc. I've found it only "cool and interesting" from a purely entertainment perspective, like if the money was fake video game money and you didn't actually care what happened to it. But even then it gets boring real quick because you'll easily find that the trading patterns are all either completely random or are heavily manipulated. In the real world, all those things you described are illegal in most places. So the only way they've gotten around that is by setting up this fake system, lying to people and telling them it's real and charging them real money to use it, and then when they get pressed by regulators they admit it's fake again.
    - ETH_start 4y ago
      Web3 provides distributed consensus that enforces the immutability of a virtual machine protocol. This is a new feature set that was not available before. In practice it has enabled the emergence of a core set of highly reputable DeFi apps - MakerDAO, Compound, Aave and Uniswap - that have managed billions of dollars worth of digital assets and not malfunctioned in the recent market crash, while several centralized lenders and investment funds did. >>and then when they get pressed by regulators they admit it's fake again. This has never happened AFAIK. The opposite - of projects taking the credible position that they don't control the protocol because it is autonomous and immutable - has happened, as in the case of Uniswap Labs vis-a-vis the Uniswap protocol. For decentralized/genuine DeFi apps, like MakerDAO, Compound, Aave and Uniswap, as opposed to centralized ones like Ripple, I don't expect this position to ever be challenged by regulatory agencies, because in reality, these protocols cannot be shut down or changed by any party.
- davidatbu 4y ago
  Sincerely appreciate your comments! Specifically about FileCoin, if I understand you correctly, your only gripe is that it uses cryptocurrency right? If I got that wrong, let me know.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  > There's no wheat. The entirety of web3 is a series of ponzi-like schemes to pump up the price of some token and dump it on unsuspecting users. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. > Payments for IPFS storage isn't a horrible idea, but it needs to be done in a normal way using real money, without the speculative tokens. That's what Filecoin is attempting to do. That's the wheat that you declared to be nonexistent, on the basis of arbitrarily deeming speculation on cryptocurrencies to be bad while ignoring the rampant speculation on "real money" (see also: the very existence of forex markets).

TheIronYuppie 4y ago

Can't respond to "word on the street" (i guess my streets have different words?), but I am more than happy to respond to any detailed questions you have! There's also a ton of public research (for example https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1546894197671821320 https://twitter.com/MessariCrypto/status/1546894197671821320 - amount stored on Filecoin grew at 128% quarter over quarter). Disclosure: I am co-director of Research Development at Protocol Labs.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
greatpostman 4y ago
Appreciate your response and my apologies if I am incorrect. But what I have heard is the following: There’s constant large amount of coins printed for the team and their VC’s in which they can sell on a daily basis to dump the market. Also new coins being owed to the miners are periodically unlocked as well (in FIL it’s like a ponzi, you gotta wait for your rewards to be unlocked after many months to take everything out). Basically too many coins can be sold daily, very little demand, real use case, or hype.
- TheIronYuppie 4y ago
  Unfortunately, I can't comment on the price of the coin - it's determined by the market, and we/the Filecoin community is just focused on delivering useful stuff. If you want market speculation, there's tons of sites out there that will do that for you. As far as the people actually using it, you can check it out here[1] We have about 18 Exabytes of space on the network, adding nearly 2+ PiB a day of new deals (people storing things). You can see a bunch of the important datasets being added here[2], replicated, universally available and uncensorable. If you see value in that, that's great! If you don't and have more feedback, we're here to help! If you hate us or want another solution, that's cool too! [1] https://filfox.info/en https://filfox.info/en [2] https://slingshot.filecoin.io/explore https://slingshot.filecoin.io/explore
  - 4y ago