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Imagine if we had a fully electrified economy instead of this petrol-economy crap. There was a period where prospectors tried to hurry up and hoard all the ura

by ianai 4y ago

Imagine if we had a fully electrified economy instead of this petrol-economy crap. There was a period where prospectors tried to hurry up and hoard all the uranium deposits they could find only to discover the stuff occurs at a rate to not be economical. (And supposedly covering an area the size of NM with solar would provide all the worlds energy needs.)

lotsofpulp 4y ago
This is how you get the electrified (or whatever else) economy. Without the pain of higher fossil fuel prices, there is little incentive to change.
- ianai 4y ago
  I’ve taken to calling gas “conflict fuel” to remind myself to avoid using it as much as possible in my daily life. Helps more than just a desire to not impact the climate.
  - dannyw 4y ago
    I don't really care, I will use whatever energy source is the cheapest. Subsidise green energy or tax dirty energy so that's true, and people like me will naturally switch.
    - ianai 4y ago
      Or else why would you reply, right?
  - galangalalgol 4y ago
    The nickel wars are coming to fuel the battery factories.
    - epistasis 4y ago
      Batteries have a lot more flexibility outside of lithium. LFP batteries don't have nickel and work well enough for cars.
- titzer 4y ago
  European countries have managed to set national goals and work systematically towards them, putting them far ahead of the US's non-strategy of "the market will fix it" FUD that we've been fed from Miltonites for decades.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    The biggest thing European countries have done is make fossil fuels prices higher by increasing taxes. A solution that is not politically palatable to the vast majority of the US, due to the sacrifices in quality of life it would entail.
    - titzer 4y ago
      > make fossil fuels prices higher by increasing taxes Biggest thing? No. In Germany, where I lived for 7 years, this is only one component of a much broader strategy that includes investing in electrified infrastructure, including subways, trams, busses, long-haul trains, higher fuel efficiency standards, direct subsidies for renewables, direct investment in renewables, including projects to build them, higher efficiency standards for appliances, lightbulbs, timer-based circuits to turn off lights, broad public awareness of the role of conservation, and not tolerating as much climate change denial bullshit coming out of fossil fuel companies and political parties. It's almost like they decided to mobilize and actually do something, treating this like a problem that can be decomposed and solved by thinking about it and doing stuff instead of tinkering with taxes, which have a tendency to be immediately undone upon the next economic downturn. Hope, they say, is not a strategy.
      - lotsofpulp 4y ago
        > It's almost like they decided to mobilize and actually do something, treating this like a problem that can be decomposed and solved by thinking about it and doing stuff instead of tinkering with taxes The incentive to do something comes from making gas prices higher, or “tinkering with taxes”. The US has cheap fuel at the pump, incentivizing people to continue buying SUVs and pickup trucks with 5+ liter engines that get 10 to 20 miles per gallon. It incentivizes people to live on quarter acre lots in far flung suburbs that require individual cars to get around. The people living this lifestyle do not want to spend money on public transport, or dense living. They have the life they want, in big houses on big plots of land, getting around in the luxury of their personal vehicles. They will vote for the politician who continues to enable and make this life easier, they will vote to make roads wider, and prioritize car transportation over walking and bicycling and public transport. Why would I want my taxes to increase to build a rail network when I have my own large, luxurious vehicle with which I can get to anywhere I want, anytime I want, without having to share the space with random others for 20 cents per mile worth of fossil fuel?

by ianai 4y ago

lotsofpulp 4y ago

This is how you get the electrified (or whatever else) economy. Without the pain of higher fossil fuel prices, there is little incentive to change.

ianai 4y ago
I’ve taken to calling gas “conflict fuel” to remind myself to avoid using it as much as possible in my daily life. Helps more than just a desire to not impact the climate.
- dannyw 4y ago
  I don't really care, I will use whatever energy source is the cheapest. Subsidise green energy or tax dirty energy so that's true, and people like me will naturally switch.
  - ianai 4y ago
    Or else why would you reply, right?
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  The nickel wars are coming to fuel the battery factories.
  - epistasis 4y ago
    Batteries have a lot more flexibility outside of lithium. LFP batteries don't have nickel and work well enough for cars.
titzer 4y ago
European countries have managed to set national goals and work systematically towards them, putting them far ahead of the US's non-strategy of "the market will fix it" FUD that we've been fed from Miltonites for decades.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  The biggest thing European countries have done is make fossil fuels prices higher by increasing taxes. A solution that is not politically palatable to the vast majority of the US, due to the sacrifices in quality of life it would entail.
  - titzer 4y ago
    > make fossil fuels prices higher by increasing taxes Biggest thing? No. In Germany, where I lived for 7 years, this is only one component of a much broader strategy that includes investing in electrified infrastructure, including subways, trams, busses, long-haul trains, higher fuel efficiency standards, direct subsidies for renewables, direct investment in renewables, including projects to build them, higher efficiency standards for appliances, lightbulbs, timer-based circuits to turn off lights, broad public awareness of the role of conservation, and not tolerating as much climate change denial bullshit coming out of fossil fuel companies and political parties. It's almost like they decided to mobilize and actually do something, treating this like a problem that can be decomposed and solved by thinking about it and doing stuff instead of tinkering with taxes, which have a tendency to be immediately undone upon the next economic downturn. Hope, they say, is not a strategy.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      > It's almost like they decided to mobilize and actually do something, treating this like a problem that can be decomposed and solved by thinking about it and doing stuff instead of tinkering with taxes The incentive to do something comes from making gas prices higher, or “tinkering with taxes”. The US has cheap fuel at the pump, incentivizing people to continue buying SUVs and pickup trucks with 5+ liter engines that get 10 to 20 miles per gallon. It incentivizes people to live on quarter acre lots in far flung suburbs that require individual cars to get around. The people living this lifestyle do not want to spend money on public transport, or dense living. They have the life they want, in big houses on big plots of land, getting around in the luxury of their personal vehicles. They will vote for the politician who continues to enable and make this life easier, they will vote to make roads wider, and prioritize car transportation over walking and bicycling and public transport. Why would I want my taxes to increase to build a rail network when I have my own large, luxurious vehicle with which I can get to anywhere I want, anytime I want, without having to share the space with random others for 20 cents per mile worth of fossil fuel?