6 ms·

> The UK hasn't been able to feed its population from native production only since before WW2. What does this mean though? That the UK does not generate enoug

by noja 4y ago

> The UK hasn't been able to feed its population from native production only since before WW2. What does this mean though? That the UK does not generate enough calories to meet a certain minimum baseline? That the UK does not generate enough calories to meet the current consumption? That the UK eats things that they do not grow?

londons_explore 4y ago
The UK has a whole government department to answer your questions: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/united-kingdom-food-security-report-2021/united-kingdom-food-security-report-2021-theme-2-uk-food-supply-sources https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/united-kingdom-food... Result: The UK grows enough wheat alone to give enough calories to support its population, with plenty to spare. It also produces all the major food groups in quite large quantities. If cut off from the world, the UK people wouldn't starve, but they might have to switch out their caviar for something else.
- bojangleslover 4y ago
  > switch out their caviar for something else Try plastic-wrapped garbage at Co-op and Sainsbury's!
- pjc50 4y ago
  That's quite an impressive report and it's good to see someone's taking this seriously, even if they might end up ignored by whoever the agriculture secretary of the day is. > but they might have to switch out their caviar for something else That's frivolous: the report talks about meeting 100% of caloric requirements from grain in an emergency scenario. The mostly-bread diet would be comparable or worse than WW2 rationing, it's not just luxuries that would be impacted. For purposes of comparison with Sri Lanka, I also note: "The UK imports roughly 50% of its ammonium nitrate, with 75% of imports for fertiliser use coming from the EU (primarily from Lithuania, Poland, and the Netherlands) and the remaining 25% from Georgia and Russia."
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    The Brits have gas which can be converted to good fertilizer. They eat a lot of beans too.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    > The mostly-bread diet See the section on meat, dairy, fruits, vegetables, etc... It would be a decent diet. And obviously within a year or so, land use could be adjusted to make it an even better diet.
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      The UK produces a surplus of animal shit; I don't understand why it isn't all being used to fertilize the ground. For that matter, I don't understand why human poo is treated as pollution, rather than being composted.
      - weberer 4y ago
        >For that matter, I don't understand why human poo is treated as pollution, rather than being composted. Because human waste contains shigella bacteria which would be disastrous if runoff makes it to the water supply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigella
        freshpots 4y ago
        "Because human waste contains shigella bacteria..." we wouldn't put human waste directly on the land. We currently do spread treated human waste that has been digested on land, commonly called biosolids. https://www.epa.gov/biosolids/basic-information-about-biosolids https://www.epa.gov/biosolids/basic-information-about-biosol...
      - spaetzleesser 4y ago
        I would guess mainly because synthetic fertilizers are cheaper
      - 4y ago
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  That might have been true at some point, but with all the "we have to fight Russia" rhetoric they have put that food security in jeopardy. It's by far not the only western country that does so. The Farmers protests in NL triggered by the request to massively slash nitrogen in farming are another example. It does remind be of Sri Lanka a little bit, albeit under a different pretext. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-08/high-gas-prices-force-uk-fertilizer-plant-to-close-for-good https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-08/high-gas-...
- mytailorisrich 4y ago
  The UK is not self-sufficient in wheat, and depending on harvests has to imports millions of tons. "Enough wheat to give enough calories to everyone" only means that in an extreme situation and with very strict rationing nutritional needs could be met. Which is self-sufficiency at the limit only.
  - tialaramex 4y ago
    Indeed. In World War II Britain was dependant upon food imports even with rationing. After a period in which German U-boats happened to be unusually effective at destroying civilian transports, it got down to maybe a week's supply. The government assumption was that - once the population realises they're going to be starved - they will revolt and insist on agreeing terms with Germany in exchange for food. Given what we later saw in Japan (which did starve its civilian population and they did not in fact rise up and force Japan to surrender) perhaps they were too pessimistic, we will never know because the next convoy got through.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by noja 4y ago

londons_explore 4y ago

The UK has a whole government department to answer your questions: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/united-kingdom-food-security-report-2021/united-kingdom-food-security-report-2021-theme-2-uk-food-supply-sources https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/united-kingdom-food... Result: The UK grows enough wheat alone to give enough calories to support its population, with plenty to spare. It also produces all the major food groups in quite large quantities. If cut off from the world, the UK people wouldn't starve, but they might have to switch out their caviar for something else.

bojangleslover 4y ago
> switch out their caviar for something else Try plastic-wrapped garbage at Co-op and Sainsbury's!
pjc50 4y ago
That's quite an impressive report and it's good to see someone's taking this seriously, even if they might end up ignored by whoever the agriculture secretary of the day is. > but they might have to switch out their caviar for something else That's frivolous: the report talks about meeting 100% of caloric requirements from grain in an emergency scenario. The mostly-bread diet would be comparable or worse than WW2 rationing, it's not just luxuries that would be impacted. For purposes of comparison with Sri Lanka, I also note: "The UK imports roughly 50% of its ammonium nitrate, with 75% of imports for fertiliser use coming from the EU (primarily from Lithuania, Poland, and the Netherlands) and the remaining 25% from Georgia and Russia."
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  The Brits have gas which can be converted to good fertilizer. They eat a lot of beans too.
- londons_explore 4y ago
  > The mostly-bread diet See the section on meat, dairy, fruits, vegetables, etc... It would be a decent diet. And obviously within a year or so, land use could be adjusted to make it an even better diet.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    The UK produces a surplus of animal shit; I don't understand why it isn't all being used to fertilize the ground. For that matter, I don't understand why human poo is treated as pollution, rather than being composted.
    - weberer 4y ago
      >For that matter, I don't understand why human poo is treated as pollution, rather than being composted. Because human waste contains shigella bacteria which would be disastrous if runoff makes it to the water supply. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigella
      - freshpots 4y ago
        "Because human waste contains shigella bacteria..." we wouldn't put human waste directly on the land. We currently do spread treated human waste that has been digested on land, commonly called biosolids. https://www.epa.gov/biosolids/basic-information-about-biosolids https://www.epa.gov/biosolids/basic-information-about-biosol...
    - spaetzleesser 4y ago
      I would guess mainly because synthetic fertilizers are cheaper
    - 4y ago
rjzzleep 4y ago
That might have been true at some point, but with all the "we have to fight Russia" rhetoric they have put that food security in jeopardy. It's by far not the only western country that does so. The Farmers protests in NL triggered by the request to massively slash nitrogen in farming are another example. It does remind be of Sri Lanka a little bit, albeit under a different pretext. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-08/high-gas-prices-force-uk-fertilizer-plant-to-close-for-good https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-08/high-gas-...
mytailorisrich 4y ago
The UK is not self-sufficient in wheat, and depending on harvests has to imports millions of tons. "Enough wheat to give enough calories to everyone" only means that in an extreme situation and with very strict rationing nutritional needs could be met. Which is self-sufficiency at the limit only.
- tialaramex 4y ago
  Indeed. In World War II Britain was dependant upon food imports even with rationing. After a period in which German U-boats happened to be unusually effective at destroying civilian transports, it got down to maybe a week's supply. The government assumption was that - once the population realises they're going to be starved - they will revolt and insist on agreeing terms with Germany in exchange for food. Given what we later saw in Japan (which did starve its civilian population and they did not in fact rise up and force Japan to surrender) perhaps they were too pessimistic, we will never know because the next convoy got through.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]