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> people are willing to change jobs often People are willing to changes jobs often because companies aren't offering meaningful paths for advancement. People a
by deathanatos 4y ago
> people are willing to change jobs often
People are willing to changes jobs often because companies aren't offering meaningful paths for advancement. People aren't going to wait around forever, and will write their own promotion if it comes to that. I did, after watching people half as qualified as me interview for "Senior Software Engineer" with alleged years of experience as such.
I've watched corporations make blindingly obvious $100M mistakes, and then layoff the rank & file — the "talent" — who had no say, and if anything, disapproved of the decisions that led to their ultimate layoff. You can't get attached to a company, as the winds will shift tomorrow.
> almost all of the companies we studied are starting to take nontraditional approaches to recruiting
And yet there doesn't appear to be a recruiter out there that can put a competently written email into my inbox. Of the jobs I've held, I've self-applied to two, my own network for one, and the last was a recruiter.
> We don’t have a retention problem! In a sense, they’re right. At the senior level, the attrition rates at these companies are often quite low – 4% or 5% a year.
… 4%–5% attrition YoY would be low, IMO. My experience is closer to 30–50% YoY.
> They have good ideas, they have money – they just don’t have enough talented people to pursue those ideas. They are “talent-constrained.”
If you have the money, and you're "talent constrained", it is either because you don't have the money, or you're not willing to loose the purse-strings enough to get the talent.
> What do talented people get at startups? For one thing, the opportunity to make a lot of money.
Please. Lottery tickets similarly offer the opportunity to make a lot of money, but I suppose this is 1998 and the bubble hasn't imploded just quite yet.
> “Does your company make improving its talent pool one of its top three priorities?” In many companies, only 10% or 20% of corporate officers said yes.
And the truth comes out. "Talent, talent, talent" as a marketing message, but … it isn't an actual priority.
Mid-way through this alleged war for talent, Adobe, Apple, Google. Intel, Intuit, eBay and others would be sued for antitrust violations around suppressing wages by non-poaching agreements. They would later settle at various points for a collective $435M. Still, "[one of the plaintiffs] said the [earlier, slightly smaller settlement] represents only one-tenth of the $3 billion in compensation the 64,000 workers could have made if the defendants had not colluded".
- indymike 4y ago> 4%–5% attrition YoY would be low, IMO. My experience is closer to 30–50% YoY 50% is fast food level attrition. 12% is bottom tier in tech.
- deathanatos 4y agoIf it is 12%, where are the people spending 5+y at the company? (And if it's "oh that's Steve over here", that's the exception proving the rule.) And this isn't "regrettable attrition", as I've heard more than one employer call it, this is all of it.
- sgerenser 4y ago30-50% attrition sounds insane. Which companies do you base this observation on?
- Jensson 4y agoMost "attrition" figures are based on average tenure in exponentially growing companies like Amazon or Google. Real attrition is much lower than those figures.
- deathanatos 4y agoThis of all things got the responses. Look at the makeup of your team/division/company (as outward as you can): how many are past 2 years? 3yr? If the answer is "few" and "extremely few", P(attrition per year) has to match.
- sgerenser 4y agoThat’s only true if the company is not hiring anyone. Attrition can be 0, but headcount doubles year over year and you have half your employees with <1 year of tenure.
- deathanatos 4y agoYou should still be seeing (significant) headcount over the 2yr mark, and the places I've worked at, you don't. (Of the portion of the headcount that existed at that time minus 2yrs, ofc., i.e., yes, ignore hiring.) > Attrition can be 0, but headcount doubles year over year and you have half your employees with <1 year of tenure. I really should have stated it more clearly. It's a contrived example. I suppose a better way would be "of the people who started ahead of me, how many remain?" or so; the hard part is that the company has all the data, and often doesn't release it. 4%, though, corresponds to an average tenure that's preposterous when nobody stays for much over 2yr, and particularly much over 3yr. At one employer I worked at, I know that when I hit the 3yr mark, there were 5 people that remained who were there when I started. I would estimate there were ~60 people at start. That attrition, over 3yr, corresponds to a rate of ~56% YoY. And that employer is not at all unique or distinguished in that regard. People leave — why would they stay?