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That's not what I'm saying. I said that saying K8s is like X requires that you show how it is like X first, before you can draw any conclusions from that analo

That's not what I'm saying. I said that saying K8s is like X requires that you show how it is like X first, before you can draw any conclusions from that analogy. Otherwise, it is not an argument and should have zero value in a conversation, other than someone stating their (unsupported) opinion.

maxbond 4y ago
I think what you're missing is that they didn't give you an argument, they told you how they felt about Kubernetes. And that's a totally reasonable thing for them to do. You aren't owed an argument. But if you had asked politely you probably would've gotten one. When it comes to political discussions, I think it is reasonable to demand that everyone who chooses to participate substantiate their claims and make arguments rather than stating opinions. Misinformation about politics is serious, it can be a matter of life and death. That standard does not apply to talking smack about Kubernetes on the internet. I can tell you that programming in Python feels like a game of operation and that programming in Rust feels like a breath of fresh air. I don't have to tell you why. You shouldn't try to argue against this, either - it isn't something I can possibly be wrong about, or that you could possibly understand better than I. You can tell me about how you feel like Rust is overhyped garbage (I have no idea how you feel about Rust, it's only an example). But why would you try to tell me how I feel? What is the consequence if my statement goes unchallenged? Someone tries to learn Rust and is disappointed that it doesn't match the hype? Some engineer starts a new project in Go instead of Python because they don't want to play operation? Life goes on. If you look at it through that lens, you can make sense of it. They're not saying there's a relevant similarity between Kubernetes and vehicles. They're saying that with more complex tools you make more complex mistakes, that Kubernetes may have solved problems but it also gave us more rope to hang ourselves. And I bet you'd have something interesting and productive to say in response to that idea - you obviously have passionate opinions on this subject. I'd also note, no one ever said not to use Kubernetes. The general vibe was that Kubernetes is stressful to work with. Again, no one is making an argument - they're venting to other engineers.
- beebmam 4y ago
  >I think what you're missing is that they didn't give you an argument That's fine, and I'm glad that people are admitting that their comment shouldn't be taken as persuasive, or anything other than self-expression. Many people think analogies are persuasive, but they're often nothing more than illogical rhetoric, and it's a critical blunder to be persuaded by an unjustified analogy.
nimchimpsky 4y ago

maxbond 4y ago

I think what you're missing is that they didn't give you an argument, they told you how they felt about Kubernetes. And that's a totally reasonable thing for them to do. You aren't owed an argument. But if you had asked politely you probably would've gotten one. When it comes to political discussions, I think it is reasonable to demand that everyone who chooses to participate substantiate their claims and make arguments rather than stating opinions. Misinformation about politics is serious, it can be a matter of life and death. That standard does not apply to talking smack about Kubernetes on the internet. I can tell you that programming in Python feels like a game of operation and that programming in Rust feels like a breath of fresh air. I don't have to tell you why. You shouldn't try to argue against this, either - it isn't something I can possibly be wrong about, or that you could possibly understand better than I. You can tell me about how you feel like Rust is overhyped garbage (I have no idea how you feel about Rust, it's only an example). But why would you try to tell me how I feel? What is the consequence if my statement goes unchallenged? Someone tries to learn Rust and is disappointed that it doesn't match the hype? Some engineer starts a new project in Go instead of Python because they don't want to play operation? Life goes on. If you look at it through that lens, you can make sense of it. They're not saying there's a relevant similarity between Kubernetes and vehicles. They're saying that with more complex tools you make more complex mistakes, that Kubernetes may have solved problems but it also gave us more rope to hang ourselves. And I bet you'd have something interesting and productive to say in response to that idea - you obviously have passionate opinions on this subject. I'd also note, no one ever said not to use Kubernetes. The general vibe was that Kubernetes is stressful to work with. Again, no one is making an argument - they're venting to other engineers.

beebmam 4y ago
>I think what you're missing is that they didn't give you an argument That's fine, and I'm glad that people are admitting that their comment shouldn't be taken as persuasive, or anything other than self-expression. Many people think analogies are persuasive, but they're often nothing more than illogical rhetoric, and it's a critical blunder to be persuaded by an unjustified analogy.

nimchimpsky 4y ago