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I had a brain tumor that made me make seriously poor decisions over a period of 4 years. I destroyed my reputation of 20 years that got me requested by a fortun

I had a brain tumor that made me make seriously poor decisions over a period of 4 years. I destroyed my reputation of 20 years that got me requested by a fortune 10 to the USA and green card sorted. I am one of the few actually good recruiters that exist and am now capable of doing the good work that got me where I was but absolutely no one wants to hear it or give me a chance. One of the main issues is I was very senior (but still actively worked on search assignments for niche technical and or c suite) and there are few senior roles and most junior people don’t want to manage me at 45 or even consider me for less senior positions. 45 is oooooooold in recruitment where you are up or out in a sink or swim environment and 90% are just glorified telemarketers. None of this is anyones fault but man I got emotional writing this. I hear so much about how terrible the recruitment ‘industry’ is, much of it true, I’m desperate to work and to help but how the hell do I break this loop? How do I get past the ‘he took his pants off in the office once’ reputation? put CAT scans on my CV? Look ma no tumor!

cschep 4y ago
If you present yourself as well in person as you do in your writing it seems like you could tell the story well and people would be endeared to you. What is keeping you from these roles?
- jamiek88 4y ago
  Honestly, it's because I struggle to get to the stage where I can tell the story because people see my name and back channel it. Within my chosen specialty I was pretty well known and my issues were very public. It's getting a bit better as the counter story gets out but its exhausting sometimes and hard to talk about in a 30 minute phone screen, the entire conversation becomes about that.
forgingahead 4y ago
Sorry to hear that. I read a story in the papers recently where one chap had a brain tumour that he wasn't aware of, and it was making him act in a way that had him lash out at his family always and divorce his wife. Once they discovered it, he managed to get it removed, survive, and actually start to patch things up with his family. I guess there isn't really a point to this comment other than to say you definitely have my sympathies, that stuff can be brutal. I hope you can get past this professionally.
- jamiek88 4y ago
  So that is where I am at basically, very similar story. I gambled all our money away, stopped showing up for work, presented as drunk unknowingly. I was never violent but I was basically like a child with no self control or ability to delay gratification. I was lucky that I started getting severe headaches and nausea that lead to scans otherwise I'd be divorced, homeless and who knows what.
gopher_space 4y ago
The competent recruiters that I've met in my field have all been running their own small shops or regularly attaching to companies for specific goals. I keep in touch with them and pass their info on to friends. I don't know nearly enough about your industry to know where reputation fits into the system but it's certainly not a concern from my point of view.
- jamiek88 4y ago
  Yes this is true, and you are correct that is my best option. It is word of mouth and the actual contract/consulting work I have had has come from friends in the industry who know me and pass the lead on. Having said that some of this is just me being negative and beat down - I've had two positions to fill on a freelance basis and that lead to the CFO recommending me for a third role which was enough to launch a llc! Then the pandemic happened. So I'm starting again. Except now it's five years instead of three since I've been in the game, and really now eight years since my troubles started so contacts start to wane and move on and forget you. I'm not the guy who can play golf and entertain anymore. Just do good work. Hopefully that will be enough.
  - gopher_space 4y ago
    I've been in a similar situation but can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Giving yourself time to feel shitty about a shitty situation is pretty normal, but if you like doing good work then your interest in the work will be motivating when you dig back into it. Lots of new areas and ideas floating around right now, and it'd be worth looking around before setting your sights on an old career trajectory. How common is it for recruiters to work with commercial real estate agents? It's weird how little I know about your industry. From HN earlier, thought it was on topic: https://allenpike.com/2022/giving-a-shit https://allenpike.com/2022/giving-a-shit
anotheruser092 4y ago
I'm not an insider in recruiting, but just to share thoughts in case they stick (including quotes from other replies you've made in this thread): >"Honestly, it's because I struggle to get to the stage where I can tell the story because people see my name and back channel it." Assuming you can afford it, have you considered a reputation firm to bury negative search results for your name? The ability to find well-paying work can outsize the cost. Good research is needed here, as some firms are likely ineffective, while others do work. Have you also considered going by an alternative version of your name? If you have a spouse, could you adopt their last name? If the problem is really that serious, even a name change may be warranted. At the least, a "doing business as (DBA)" name change could work, similar to what gopher_space wrote about operating as a small shop. >"Within my chosen specialty I was pretty well known and my issues were very public." Would your skills and experience in recruitment be relevant to another specialty? A real option is to lower your expectations of seniority, and start at a more junior level in a different field/specialty that uses the same skills, and build up new experience and have new connections. With your background, you should progress much faster than a genuine junior recruiter. >"Except now it's five years instead of three since I've been in the game, and really now eight years since my troubles started so contacts start to wane and move on and forget you." How have you created those contacts in the first place? There must have been a time when you succeeded without relying on established contacts, and you created them as you were getting your foot in the door. Age and reputation may work against you, but reputational obstacles can be mitigated from the suggestions above. >"45 is oooooooold in recruitment where you are up or out in a sink or swim environment and 90% are just glorified telemarketers." Are there ways to obscure your age? If you have a degree, can you remove the year? Can you remove earlier experiences from your C.V.? Would there be anything you can do to physically look younger, or at least make your age ambiguous for in-person interviews? >"I'm not the guy who can play golf and entertain anymore." There is a sales book (less relevant for recruiting) called "The Challenger Sale," which asserts that likability, while important, is far less useful and valued by others than helping people identify problems they may not have considered, and offering solutions. Instead of focusing on golfing and entertainment (likability), would it be possible to focus more on outcomes you had at previous work positions? In a completely different tack, would you be willing to switch to an adjacent field outside of recruiting? For a moment, assume that recruiting is completely non-viable (this isn't true, but consider this for a moment). What do you like about recruiting? What specific skills do you excel at, within recruiting? Are there any other career directions you would really enjoy, where these skills will give you a strong advantage, even if you had to learn additional skills? Overall, you really can get back on your feet. There are a lot of stories on HN where people are worse off (felony criminal record or homeless), yet who have still created enjoyable and sustainable careers. It's completely valid to feel emotional about your circumstances, but there is a clear pathway to find work you enjoy (address the obstacle of reputation; consider a different style of pitching your skillset that is challenge-focussed while leveraging your past experience; changing fields outside of your specialty, while accepting a junior position and working up; and changing your career path while leveraging your existing skills).
bsaul 4y ago
Have you tried posting an explanation / apology on linked in ? It's actually one of the very rare case where sending a public message to your whole professional circle makes perfect sense.

cschep 4y ago

If you present yourself as well in person as you do in your writing it seems like you could tell the story well and people would be endeared to you. What is keeping you from these roles?

jamiek88 4y ago
Honestly, it's because I struggle to get to the stage where I can tell the story because people see my name and back channel it. Within my chosen specialty I was pretty well known and my issues were very public. It's getting a bit better as the counter story gets out but its exhausting sometimes and hard to talk about in a 30 minute phone screen, the entire conversation becomes about that.

forgingahead 4y ago

Sorry to hear that. I read a story in the papers recently where one chap had a brain tumour that he wasn't aware of, and it was making him act in a way that had him lash out at his family always and divorce his wife. Once they discovered it, he managed to get it removed, survive, and actually start to patch things up with his family. I guess there isn't really a point to this comment other than to say you definitely have my sympathies, that stuff can be brutal. I hope you can get past this professionally.

jamiek88 4y ago
So that is where I am at basically, very similar story. I gambled all our money away, stopped showing up for work, presented as drunk unknowingly. I was never violent but I was basically like a child with no self control or ability to delay gratification. I was lucky that I started getting severe headaches and nausea that lead to scans otherwise I'd be divorced, homeless and who knows what.

gopher_space 4y ago

The competent recruiters that I've met in my field have all been running their own small shops or regularly attaching to companies for specific goals. I keep in touch with them and pass their info on to friends. I don't know nearly enough about your industry to know where reputation fits into the system but it's certainly not a concern from my point of view.

jamiek88 4y ago
Yes this is true, and you are correct that is my best option. It is word of mouth and the actual contract/consulting work I have had has come from friends in the industry who know me and pass the lead on. Having said that some of this is just me being negative and beat down - I've had two positions to fill on a freelance basis and that lead to the CFO recommending me for a third role which was enough to launch a llc! Then the pandemic happened. So I'm starting again. Except now it's five years instead of three since I've been in the game, and really now eight years since my troubles started so contacts start to wane and move on and forget you. I'm not the guy who can play golf and entertain anymore. Just do good work. Hopefully that will be enough.
- gopher_space 4y ago
  I've been in a similar situation but can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Giving yourself time to feel shitty about a shitty situation is pretty normal, but if you like doing good work then your interest in the work will be motivating when you dig back into it. Lots of new areas and ideas floating around right now, and it'd be worth looking around before setting your sights on an old career trajectory. How common is it for recruiters to work with commercial real estate agents? It's weird how little I know about your industry. From HN earlier, thought it was on topic: https://allenpike.com/2022/giving-a-shit https://allenpike.com/2022/giving-a-shit

anotheruser092 4y ago

I'm not an insider in recruiting, but just to share thoughts in case they stick (including quotes from other replies you've made in this thread): >"Honestly, it's because I struggle to get to the stage where I can tell the story because people see my name and back channel it." Assuming you can afford it, have you considered a reputation firm to bury negative search results for your name? The ability to find well-paying work can outsize the cost. Good research is needed here, as some firms are likely ineffective, while others do work. Have you also considered going by an alternative version of your name? If you have a spouse, could you adopt their last name? If the problem is really that serious, even a name change may be warranted. At the least, a "doing business as (DBA)" name change could work, similar to what gopher_space wrote about operating as a small shop. >"Within my chosen specialty I was pretty well known and my issues were very public." Would your skills and experience in recruitment be relevant to another specialty? A real option is to lower your expectations of seniority, and start at a more junior level in a different field/specialty that uses the same skills, and build up new experience and have new connections. With your background, you should progress much faster than a genuine junior recruiter. >"Except now it's five years instead of three since I've been in the game, and really now eight years since my troubles started so contacts start to wane and move on and forget you." How have you created those contacts in the first place? There must have been a time when you succeeded without relying on established contacts, and you created them as you were getting your foot in the door. Age and reputation may work against you, but reputational obstacles can be mitigated from the suggestions above. >"45 is oooooooold in recruitment where you are up or out in a sink or swim environment and 90% are just glorified telemarketers." Are there ways to obscure your age? If you have a degree, can you remove the year? Can you remove earlier experiences from your C.V.? Would there be anything you can do to physically look younger, or at least make your age ambiguous for in-person interviews? >"I'm not the guy who can play golf and entertain anymore." There is a sales book (less relevant for recruiting) called "The Challenger Sale," which asserts that likability, while important, is far less useful and valued by others than helping people identify problems they may not have considered, and offering solutions. Instead of focusing on golfing and entertainment (likability), would it be possible to focus more on outcomes you had at previous work positions? In a completely different tack, would you be willing to switch to an adjacent field outside of recruiting? For a moment, assume that recruiting is completely non-viable (this isn't true, but consider this for a moment). What do you like about recruiting? What specific skills do you excel at, within recruiting? Are there any other career directions you would really enjoy, where these skills will give you a strong advantage, even if you had to learn additional skills? Overall, you really can get back on your feet. There are a lot of stories on HN where people are worse off (felony criminal record or homeless), yet who have still created enjoyable and sustainable careers. It's completely valid to feel emotional about your circumstances, but there is a clear pathway to find work you enjoy (address the obstacle of reputation; consider a different style of pitching your skillset that is challenge-focussed while leveraging your past experience; changing fields outside of your specialty, while accepting a junior position and working up; and changing your career path while leveraging your existing skills).

bsaul 4y ago

Have you tried posting an explanation / apology on linked in ? It's actually one of the very rare case where sending a public message to your whole professional circle makes perfect sense.