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I spent some time doing press photography for concerts and couldn't imagine shooting mirrorless during a show. High-action environments demand super low-latency

by vngzs 4y ago

I spent some time doing press photography for concerts and couldn't imagine shooting mirrorless during a show. High-action environments demand super low-latency, high-resolution viewfinders. No mirrorless I've handled so far can keep up with an optical SLR. And the crummy digital viewfinders make low-light manual focus into a painful chore. The closest thing I've found is the Fujifilm X-Pro 3's "hybrid" viewfinder. It has a Leica-style rangefinder that can, with the flip of a switch, convert into a digital image like every other mirrorless. It can even overlay the frame and a digital focus preview onto the analog image in the rangefinder as you move it around. It's not useful for concerts - the 23.5x15.6mm sensor is too small - but I photographed some of the the 2020 protests in NYC and the extra field of view in the rangefinder is actually an advantage in that kind of hectic environment.

aspyct 4y ago
I spend my time doing horse sports photography, and I can tell your mirrorless is fine. Zero latency problem, really. Go for it, you'll love it! It's a game changer.
- jgalt212 4y ago
  Low light is probably not an issue here, as horses don't tend to congregate indoors in low light environments. I would take a pentaprism SLR over an EVF any day. That being said, my budget has usually been constrained to penta-mirror SLRs.
  - aspyct 4y ago
    Low light absolutely is a thing in this field, I am regularly working around 4000 - 6400 ISO: indoors in the mornings with shutter speeds of 1/1000 on a f/2.8 lens. I'm also not splurging a huge budget: the OM System OM-1 is available for half the price of the equivalent DSLR from Canon. I mean it, mirrorless is fine.
retcon 4y ago
EVFs can be better than the Fujifilm you have and especially Nikon is (currently giving theirs better signal than other makes. I cannot agree more about low light photography. The problem with EVF design common to all current mirrorless is the autofocus needs more exposure to work in low light. This refutes just one of the OP's marketing claims which I disagree with Thom Hogan isn't the under sold story because of poor marketing (Nikon is selling their flagship to, to quote Thom *[sic] "users who buy my 1200 pages guidebook to use their "automatically everything" wonder and don't even know how to download and open the PDF" my view is that the Japanese manufacturers are being sensitive to over promising during this extremely painful transition. Having a six figures toolkit (not atypical sports pro investment just buy a couple of super telephotos and the accompanying bits) made obsolete and second class over night naturally offends American and most western sensibilities. Edit: spelling of EVF first line; can be instead of are first sentence; about not able para2; under sold story for story told para3
alfalfasprout 4y ago
The latest sony A7* cameras have a lower latency EVF mode that's extremely good. I've shot F1 races with it without issue. There's also huge benefits to EVF's with manual focus like focus peaking. Things have definitely improved from the Fuji X-Pro 3 if you want fast-paced action with a mirrorless camear.
alfalfasprout 4y ago
The latest sony A7* cameras have a lower latency EVF mode that's extremely good. I've shot F1 races with it without issue. There's also huge benefits to EVF's with manual focus like focus peaking. Things have definitely improved from the Fuji X-Pro 3 if you want fast-paced action with a mirrorless camera.
- vngzs 4y ago
  I've heard rumors that the new Sony cameras are better. Thanks for the suggestion; I'll check them out.
throwaway81523 4y ago
> High-action environments demand super low-latency, high-resolution viewfinders. No mirrorless I've handled so far can keep up with an optical SLR. And the crummy digital viewfinders make low-light manual focus into a painful chore. For low latency maybe it's now feasible to use a 30fps or 60fps motor drive (aka video camera) all the time? And I thought AF systems now work well enough that MF is just for use with old lenses with no AF.
coreyisthename 4y ago
I’m a pro photographer. I was hesitant too, but will never go back. I have a Nikon z6 and a z7II and the latency is so low as to be almost non-existent. As for Sony cameras… at least the A7rIII we used to have.. the latency was terrible and really impeded the creative process.
pixelfarmer 4y ago
I always enjoy reading comments like that, because I'm using a Sony A7s with manual lenses at underground concerts for 8 years now. I must be doing something really wrong, or maybe it is not me, but the commenter being seriously off ... Let me drop some facts. Your own reaction time, if you actually expect some specific event to happen, is 200ms+ between the actual event, seeing the event and eventually pressing a button. Add to that the delay for the camera to go through all the motions of taking the picture (i.e. delay between shutter button press and picture being recorded). EVFs are fast enough for quite some time (= many years) to not add substantial amounts of time on top of that, also because to catch the right moment you had to press the button before the moment even with OVFs already. Next thing: How is it possible to do manual focusing in dark environments? The Sony A7s is pretty much a nightvision camera, you can see stuff in seemingly normal light through the EVF while you have problems seeing anything at all with your eyes. Also means this wouldn't even be remotely possible using an OVF. Now why do I use manual lenses? The crappy AF, clearly. However, that problem got solved with the introduction of the Sony A9, which I consider (at least!) on par with my 5D3, and I first tested the A9 at a concert. Things have only gotten better since then. And yes, the lower category and older models which fit tighter budgets are maybe not checking the AF mark, but this applies all the same to DSLRs where only the pro level consumer and high end models really fit the bill as well.

by vngzs 4y ago

aspyct 4y ago

I spend my time doing horse sports photography, and I can tell your mirrorless is fine. Zero latency problem, really. Go for it, you'll love it! It's a game changer.

jgalt212 4y ago
Low light is probably not an issue here, as horses don't tend to congregate indoors in low light environments. I would take a pentaprism SLR over an EVF any day. That being said, my budget has usually been constrained to penta-mirror SLRs.
- aspyct 4y ago
  Low light absolutely is a thing in this field, I am regularly working around 4000 - 6400 ISO: indoors in the mornings with shutter speeds of 1/1000 on a f/2.8 lens. I'm also not splurging a huge budget: the OM System OM-1 is available for half the price of the equivalent DSLR from Canon. I mean it, mirrorless is fine.

retcon 4y ago

EVFs can be better than the Fujifilm you have and especially Nikon is (currently giving theirs better signal than other makes. I cannot agree more about low light photography. The problem with EVF design common to all current mirrorless is the autofocus needs more exposure to work in low light. This refutes just one of the OP's marketing claims which I disagree with Thom Hogan isn't the under sold story because of poor marketing (Nikon is selling their flagship to, to quote Thom *[sic] "users who buy my 1200 pages guidebook to use their "automatically everything" wonder and don't even know how to download and open the PDF" my view is that the Japanese manufacturers are being sensitive to over promising during this extremely painful transition. Having a six figures toolkit (not atypical sports pro investment just buy a couple of super telephotos and the accompanying bits) made obsolete and second class over night naturally offends American and most western sensibilities. Edit: spelling of EVF first line; can be instead of are first sentence; about not able para2; under sold story for story told para3

alfalfasprout 4y ago

The latest sony A7* cameras have a lower latency EVF mode that's extremely good. I've shot F1 races with it without issue. There's also huge benefits to EVF's with manual focus like focus peaking. Things have definitely improved from the Fuji X-Pro 3 if you want fast-paced action with a mirrorless camear.

alfalfasprout 4y ago

vngzs 4y ago
I've heard rumors that the new Sony cameras are better. Thanks for the suggestion; I'll check them out.

throwaway81523 4y ago

> High-action environments demand super low-latency, high-resolution viewfinders. No mirrorless I've handled so far can keep up with an optical SLR. And the crummy digital viewfinders make low-light manual focus into a painful chore. For low latency maybe it's now feasible to use a 30fps or 60fps motor drive (aka video camera) all the time? And I thought AF systems now work well enough that MF is just for use with old lenses with no AF.

coreyisthename 4y ago

I’m a pro photographer. I was hesitant too, but will never go back. I have a Nikon z6 and a z7II and the latency is so low as to be almost non-existent. As for Sony cameras… at least the A7rIII we used to have.. the latency was terrible and really impeded the creative process.

pixelfarmer 4y ago

I always enjoy reading comments like that, because I'm using a Sony A7s with manual lenses at underground concerts for 8 years now. I must be doing something really wrong, or maybe it is not me, but the commenter being seriously off ... Let me drop some facts. Your own reaction time, if you actually expect some specific event to happen, is 200ms+ between the actual event, seeing the event and eventually pressing a button. Add to that the delay for the camera to go through all the motions of taking the picture (i.e. delay between shutter button press and picture being recorded). EVFs are fast enough for quite some time (= many years) to not add substantial amounts of time on top of that, also because to catch the right moment you had to press the button before the moment even with OVFs already. Next thing: How is it possible to do manual focusing in dark environments? The Sony A7s is pretty much a nightvision camera, you can see stuff in seemingly normal light through the EVF while you have problems seeing anything at all with your eyes. Also means this wouldn't even be remotely possible using an OVF. Now why do I use manual lenses? The crappy AF, clearly. However, that problem got solved with the introduction of the Sony A9, which I consider (at least!) on par with my 5D3, and I first tested the A9 at a concert. Things have only gotten better since then. And yes, the lower category and older models which fit tighter budgets are maybe not checking the AF mark, but this applies all the same to DSLRs where only the pro level consumer and high end models really fit the bill as well.