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Giving a shit doesn't scale. In a society obsessed with growth, it's not a sustainable thing. Draw what conclusions you will. I would gladly give up this inces

Giving a shit doesn't scale. In a society obsessed with growth, it's not a sustainable thing. Draw what conclusions you will. I would gladly give up this incessant "growth" for quality.

mooreds 4y ago
I've often thought one of the reasons I'm drawn to software is it feels like there is, at the same time: * great pay (relative to other jobs) * good working conditions (sitting at a desk) * low barrier to entry (no credentialing) * the ability to be a craftsman (or craftsperson, I suppose) I'm trying to think of other jobs that allow you to hone your craft in modern industrial society while fulfilling the other criteria and can't think of any.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- datavirtue 4y ago
  Sitting at a desk is not a good thing. At all. If you're you are under 40 I urge you to get away from the desk ASAP.
  - mooreds 4y ago
    Personally, I like to stand at my desk. But as far as comfort, I've done manual labor (farm work, trail work) in the past. I would choose sitting at a desk in AC with bodily autonomy (to go to the restroom or take a walk when I want) over such manual labor. All. Day. Long. :) But you're correct, humans should move.
amichal 4y ago
I thought we were supposed to to be doing things that don’t scale[1]. I know that is why I like doing what it do. [1] http://paulgraham.com/ds.html http://paulgraham.com/ds.html
luxuryballs 4y ago
Check out the chik-fil-a franchise model.
CharlesW 4y ago
> Giving a shit doesn't scale. In a society obsessed with growth, it's not a sustainable thing. GaS comes in many forms, and can scale without issue for forms that fall within (for example) product design and development processes. I think we can agree that some companies do this better than others. Improved shit-giving at this stage actually gets cheaper per customer with scale. Per-unit/per-customer forms of GAS can scale as well, but not for free. For example, Google and YouTube could vastly improve customer/creator support, but explicitly chooses not to because they believe there's no GaS ROI there.
jlynn 4y ago
The phrase "giving a shit doesn't scale" makes as much sense to me as "honesty doesn't scale." It's not a question of scaling it out, its just a question of how you operate. Do you care? Are you honest? Do you have integrity? You should be able to do these things at any scale.
- awillen 4y ago
  That's not necessarily true - you can be honest and not give a shit. Take OP's example of buying a table - the company they worked with really spent a lot of time understanding their needs and making something custom for them. An alternative would be to go to IKEA and buy a table. IKEA does not give a shit in the same way and will not spend a great deal of time learning about you and what you're going to use your table for to ensure you get something perfect. There's absolutely nothing dishonest about that. It's not even to say that they don't care about the quality of their products. It just means they're not going to go the extra mile. Of course, it also means you're going to get a table for probably an order of magnitude less money. That's a perfectly reasonable tradeoff, and it's a good thing both types of businesses exist.
selfhoster11 4y ago
Society is not obsessed with growth. The top x% of the wealthy are.
- Juliate 4y ago
  It's not the top % of the wealthy. They're fine and structurally fine, unless they screw it up. It's both 1) a fraction of some of those a few order of magnitude lower who WANT to get to the top, and 2) those who believe only growth can sustain the "world" system (and they are not necessarily wrong, only it's become critical to redefine growth in a radical different way, or we'll all burn).
MattGaiser 4y ago
As a user you might. Would you as an investor/entrepreneur?
Twisell 4y ago
A company you might have heard of literally survived and scaled thank to the process of giving a shit impulsed by a CEO they re-hired while the company was on the brink of bankruptcy. It was Apple. Giving a shit does scale and it's precisely when apple stop giving shit (keyboard, pro) that they enter the danger zone for theirs reputation.
datavirtue 4y ago
Yeah, until the very moment our economic growth doesn't outpace population growth. Perhaps our demands are the source of the pressure?

Giving a shit doesn't scale. In a society obsessed with growth, it's not a sustainable thing. Draw what conclusions you will. I would gladly give up this incessant "growth" for quality.

mooreds 4y ago

I've often thought one of the reasons I'm drawn to software is it feels like there is, at the same time: * great pay (relative to other jobs) * good working conditions (sitting at a desk) * low barrier to entry (no credentialing) * the ability to be a craftsman (or craftsperson, I suppose) I'm trying to think of other jobs that allow you to hone your craft in modern industrial society while fulfilling the other criteria and can't think of any.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
datavirtue 4y ago
Sitting at a desk is not a good thing. At all. If you're you are under 40 I urge you to get away from the desk ASAP.
- mooreds 4y ago
  Personally, I like to stand at my desk. But as far as comfort, I've done manual labor (farm work, trail work) in the past. I would choose sitting at a desk in AC with bodily autonomy (to go to the restroom or take a walk when I want) over such manual labor. All. Day. Long. :) But you're correct, humans should move.

amichal 4y ago

I thought we were supposed to to be doing things that don’t scale[1]. I know that is why I like doing what it do. [1] http://paulgraham.com/ds.html http://paulgraham.com/ds.html

luxuryballs 4y ago

Check out the chik-fil-a franchise model.

CharlesW 4y ago

> Giving a shit doesn't scale. In a society obsessed with growth, it's not a sustainable thing. GaS comes in many forms, and can scale without issue for forms that fall within (for example) product design and development processes. I think we can agree that some companies do this better than others. Improved shit-giving at this stage actually gets cheaper per customer with scale. Per-unit/per-customer forms of GAS can scale as well, but not for free. For example, Google and YouTube could vastly improve customer/creator support, but explicitly chooses not to because they believe there's no GaS ROI there.

jlynn 4y ago

The phrase "giving a shit doesn't scale" makes as much sense to me as "honesty doesn't scale." It's not a question of scaling it out, its just a question of how you operate. Do you care? Are you honest? Do you have integrity? You should be able to do these things at any scale.

awillen 4y ago
That's not necessarily true - you can be honest and not give a shit. Take OP's example of buying a table - the company they worked with really spent a lot of time understanding their needs and making something custom for them. An alternative would be to go to IKEA and buy a table. IKEA does not give a shit in the same way and will not spend a great deal of time learning about you and what you're going to use your table for to ensure you get something perfect. There's absolutely nothing dishonest about that. It's not even to say that they don't care about the quality of their products. It just means they're not going to go the extra mile. Of course, it also means you're going to get a table for probably an order of magnitude less money. That's a perfectly reasonable tradeoff, and it's a good thing both types of businesses exist.

selfhoster11 4y ago

Society is not obsessed with growth. The top x% of the wealthy are.

Juliate 4y ago
It's not the top % of the wealthy. They're fine and structurally fine, unless they screw it up. It's both 1) a fraction of some of those a few order of magnitude lower who WANT to get to the top, and 2) those who believe only growth can sustain the "world" system (and they are not necessarily wrong, only it's become critical to redefine growth in a radical different way, or we'll all burn).

MattGaiser 4y ago

As a user you might. Would you as an investor/entrepreneur?

Twisell 4y ago

A company you might have heard of literally survived and scaled thank to the process of giving a shit impulsed by a CEO they re-hired while the company was on the brink of bankruptcy. It was Apple. Giving a shit does scale and it's precisely when apple stop giving shit (keyboard, pro) that they enter the danger zone for theirs reputation.

datavirtue 4y ago

Yeah, until the very moment our economic growth doesn't outpace population growth. Perhaps our demands are the source of the pressure?