6 ms·

This is just casual bigotry.

by jollybean 4y ago

verve_rat 4y ago
Calling that bigotry is offensive to anyone that has been subjected to actual bigotry. You should be ashamed.
- jollybean 4y ago
  - Jasper_ 4y ago
    Before you commented, I thought "there is nothing in this world an MBA can't make worse" was a bit too harsh. Now, I see it's actually accurate.
    - dang 4y ago
      Flamewar comments will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
  - bobkazamakis 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - grapeskin 4y ago
    MBAs aren’t something people are born into or end up through no choice of their own. Bigotry against MBAs is impossible. It’s like being a loan shark or pimp. People actively choose that life and society talks poorly about them because of the social harm they bring. There’s nothing stopping someone from washing their hands of any of those things and being productive.
    - jollybean 4y ago
      - verve_rat 4y ago
        Your behaviour here isn't a good argument for this thread's feelings about MBAs being "obstinate or unreasonable".
      - at_a_remove 4y ago
        Most shysters are great communicators and quite a lot of fun to be around. It's how they operate.
      - badRNG 4y ago
        > "obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group" This is just the fallacy of definition. Technically being anti-racist or anti-terrorism is "bigotry" on a fallaciously "strict" interpretation of some short definition of the word if one refuses to acknowledge its social and historical context (and how the word is used in the real world.)
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Miraste 4y ago
        > MBA's are generally better communicators and much easier to get along with. This is exactly the problem. The MBA skill set is climbing corporate hierarchies. Not product design, customer service, empathy, or long-term thinking; only promotions. That's the whole reason anyone gets an MBA. MBAs often lack domain knowledge, but even when they have it, the MBA problem remains because their priorities are unrelated to product improvement. They spend their time ingratiating themselves and taking over the top layers of management, hiring more MBAs all the while, until a formerly functional company ends up like Boeing or Sculley's Apple. Too many MBAs will inevitably degrade product quality.
        4y ago
  - shijie 4y ago
    Not every critical or mean-spirited comment is bigotry. You got your fee-fees hurt because there’s probably some truth to the comment, even if it’s mean. Buck up, quit complaining, prove the parent comment wrong in your day-to-day work. Right now you’re just deepening a few MBA stereotypes at the moment.
    - dang 4y ago
      Flamewar comments, name-calling, and personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. Please don't post like this to HN. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - Bancakes 4y ago
    - jollybean 4y ago
      I'm both a Software Engineer and an MBA, and I can assure you that you're wrong, and with a comedic, glib kind of 'Musk-ian' lack of self awareness that's weirdly common among technical types. I mean it's getting funny now, I was hoping that your comment was satire (!), alas, no.
      - Bancakes 4y ago
        >You're wrong because..... ugh! you just are, okay?!
        dang 4y ago
        Posting like this will get you banned here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
      - josefx 4y ago
        [flagged]
      - ben_w 4y ago
        You can only choose your own responses to what you experience, not other people's. Engineering without professional leadership leads to wasted effort, solutions in search of problems, and also occasional successes such as Linux. Leadership without engineering (or equivalent in other fields) is the B-Ark. If you let yourself respond with anger, no matter how justified you feel, you're going to end up in the second group — leadership is a position of strength, and if there's one thing people like even less than sore losers, it is sore winners.
      - dang 4y ago
        If you keep posting like this we're going to end up having to ban you again, so please stop. Flamewar comments are not ok, and personal attacks are very not ok. No more of this please, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - Asooka 4y ago
    Now that's bigotry.
  - aixi 4y ago
    You're being responded by a bunch of resentful engineers, but you're correct; it's the definition of bigotry.
    - dang 4y ago
      Flamewar comments will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
      - aixi 4y ago
        yeah, my bad
  - verve_rat 4y ago
    I hate to break it to you, but if you have a problem with 'technical types', this might not be the best place to hang out...
  - pjc50 4y ago
    The problem here is the use of identity "I AM an MBA" rather than mere posession "I have an MBA" or even "I have been awarded an MBA". You've made a certificate into part of your identity and are getting into fights on that basis. "Engineer" can at least be a verb. I don't think MBA can?
- dang 4y ago
  Taking HN threads further into hellish flamewar is against the site guidelines, so please don't. Attacking someone personally is not ok. We're trying to avoid the online callout/shaming culture here: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=online%20shaming%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a... Having a flamewar about the definition of a word is particularly pointless because different people have very different associations with the same word—especially when you remember that this place literally has commenters coming from all over the world. Edit: you've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines in other threads as well, e.g. here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32050947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32050947. We eventually ban accounts that do that, so please don't do that. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago
I'll say that there are managers out there who do fantastic and important work, but they are the ones that have a build & sustain perspective. If you feel offended by this comment, its because you are in the squeeze & exploit group and you know it.
- jollybean 4y ago
  Wow, this is some really strange gaslighting. I'm an Engineer and an MBA, very proud of both designations, and proud of almost all of my colleagues in both of those fields. I'm a better person for knowing the people I worked and studied with. I'm not hugely offended by the OP comment (or even yours), it's not a big deal, rather I'm pointing out that it is straight up a kind of misplaced bigotry - maybe not the best word, but it's correct. It's more ridiculous than anything. Just re-read what you wrote: "because you are in the squeeze & exploit group and you know it" Seriously? What the F is your problem? Why would you even conceive to write that to a random commenter on HN? Do you folks not see this weirdly dark and perverse cynicism coming out here? What's wrong with you people? I think maybe there is an odd, intellectually lazy thing happening whereby some people, possibly lacking the understanding of a lot of the mechanics of the 'business world', and knowing that 'bad business people exist' ... just want to throw it onto 'MBAs' for some strange reason, not understanding how odd and misinformed that rationalization is. It's really weird. Guys, stop this, it's just misinformed.
dang 4y ago
Please don't feed flamewars on HN, regardless of how bad another comment is or you feel it is. It just makes everything worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you broke the site guidelines particularly badly later in the thread. We ban accounts that do that, so please don't do it again. More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32072856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32072856.

This is just casual bigotry.

verve_rat 4y ago

Calling that bigotry is offensive to anyone that has been subjected to actual bigotry. You should be ashamed.

jollybean 4y ago
- Jasper_ 4y ago
  Before you commented, I thought "there is nothing in this world an MBA can't make worse" was a bit too harsh. Now, I see it's actually accurate.
  - dang 4y ago
    Flamewar comments will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- bobkazamakis 4y ago
  [flagged]
- grapeskin 4y ago
  MBAs aren’t something people are born into or end up through no choice of their own. Bigotry against MBAs is impossible. It’s like being a loan shark or pimp. People actively choose that life and society talks poorly about them because of the social harm they bring. There’s nothing stopping someone from washing their hands of any of those things and being productive.
  - jollybean 4y ago
    - verve_rat 4y ago
      Your behaviour here isn't a good argument for this thread's feelings about MBAs being "obstinate or unreasonable".
    - at_a_remove 4y ago
      Most shysters are great communicators and quite a lot of fun to be around. It's how they operate.
    - badRNG 4y ago
      > "obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group" This is just the fallacy of definition. Technically being anti-racist or anti-terrorism is "bigotry" on a fallaciously "strict" interpretation of some short definition of the word if one refuses to acknowledge its social and historical context (and how the word is used in the real world.)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Miraste 4y ago
      > MBA's are generally better communicators and much easier to get along with. This is exactly the problem. The MBA skill set is climbing corporate hierarchies. Not product design, customer service, empathy, or long-term thinking; only promotions. That's the whole reason anyone gets an MBA. MBAs often lack domain knowledge, but even when they have it, the MBA problem remains because their priorities are unrelated to product improvement. They spend their time ingratiating themselves and taking over the top layers of management, hiring more MBAs all the while, until a formerly functional company ends up like Boeing or Sculley's Apple. Too many MBAs will inevitably degrade product quality.
      - 4y ago
- shijie 4y ago
  Not every critical or mean-spirited comment is bigotry. You got your fee-fees hurt because there’s probably some truth to the comment, even if it’s mean. Buck up, quit complaining, prove the parent comment wrong in your day-to-day work. Right now you’re just deepening a few MBA stereotypes at the moment.
  - dang 4y ago
    Flamewar comments, name-calling, and personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. Please don't post like this to HN. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- Bancakes 4y ago
  - jollybean 4y ago
    I'm both a Software Engineer and an MBA, and I can assure you that you're wrong, and with a comedic, glib kind of 'Musk-ian' lack of self awareness that's weirdly common among technical types. I mean it's getting funny now, I was hoping that your comment was satire (!), alas, no.
    - Bancakes 4y ago
      >You're wrong because..... ugh! you just are, okay?!
      - dang 4y ago
        Posting like this will get you banned here. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
    - josefx 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - ben_w 4y ago
      You can only choose your own responses to what you experience, not other people's. Engineering without professional leadership leads to wasted effort, solutions in search of problems, and also occasional successes such as Linux. Leadership without engineering (or equivalent in other fields) is the B-Ark. If you let yourself respond with anger, no matter how justified you feel, you're going to end up in the second group — leadership is a position of strength, and if there's one thing people like even less than sore losers, it is sore winners.
    - dang 4y ago
      If you keep posting like this we're going to end up having to ban you again, so please stop. Flamewar comments are not ok, and personal attacks are very not ok. No more of this please, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- Asooka 4y ago
  Now that's bigotry.
- aixi 4y ago
  You're being responded by a bunch of resentful engineers, but you're correct; it's the definition of bigotry.
  - dang 4y ago
    Flamewar comments will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
    - aixi 4y ago
      yeah, my bad
- verve_rat 4y ago
  I hate to break it to you, but if you have a problem with 'technical types', this might not be the best place to hang out...
- pjc50 4y ago
  The problem here is the use of identity "I AM an MBA" rather than mere posession "I have an MBA" or even "I have been awarded an MBA". You've made a certificate into part of your identity and are getting into fights on that basis. "Engineer" can at least be a verb. I don't think MBA can?
dang 4y ago
Taking HN threads further into hellish flamewar is against the site guidelines, so please don't. Attacking someone personally is not ok. We're trying to avoid the online callout/shaming culture here: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=online%20shaming%20by%3Adang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&type=comment&dateRange=a... Having a flamewar about the definition of a word is particularly pointless because different people have very different associations with the same word—especially when you remember that this place literally has commenters coming from all over the world. Edit: you've unfortunately been breaking the site guidelines in other threads as well, e.g. here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32050947 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32050947. We eventually ban accounts that do that, so please don't do that. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Eddy_Viscosity2 4y ago

I'll say that there are managers out there who do fantastic and important work, but they are the ones that have a build & sustain perspective. If you feel offended by this comment, its because you are in the squeeze & exploit group and you know it.

jollybean 4y ago
Wow, this is some really strange gaslighting. I'm an Engineer and an MBA, very proud of both designations, and proud of almost all of my colleagues in both of those fields. I'm a better person for knowing the people I worked and studied with. I'm not hugely offended by the OP comment (or even yours), it's not a big deal, rather I'm pointing out that it is straight up a kind of misplaced bigotry - maybe not the best word, but it's correct. It's more ridiculous than anything. Just re-read what you wrote: "because you are in the squeeze & exploit group and you know it" Seriously? What the F is your problem? Why would you even conceive to write that to a random commenter on HN? Do you folks not see this weirdly dark and perverse cynicism coming out here? What's wrong with you people? I think maybe there is an odd, intellectually lazy thing happening whereby some people, possibly lacking the understanding of a lot of the mechanics of the 'business world', and knowing that 'bad business people exist' ... just want to throw it onto 'MBAs' for some strange reason, not understanding how odd and misinformed that rationalization is. It's really weird. Guys, stop this, it's just misinformed.

dang 4y ago

Please don't feed flamewars on HN, regardless of how bad another comment is or you feel it is. It just makes everything worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you broke the site guidelines particularly badly later in the thread. We ban accounts that do that, so please don't do it again. More here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32072856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32072856.