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I wouldn't be shocked if this true, mirrorless is the future of photography whether you like it or not (but since this is Verge...) Edit: Nikkei is also report

I wouldn't be shocked if this true, mirrorless is the future of photography whether you like it or not (but since this is Verge...) Edit: Nikkei is also reporting on this, so that makes it more believable.

hanniabu 4y ago
What's the benefit of mirrorless and why isn't it more prominent today?
- cheschire 4y ago
  Some folks prioritize the quality of the image in the viewfinder, and mirrorless uses an electronic viewfinder. Other folks prioritize weight and size, and for them the mirrorless has clear advantages.
- formerly_proven 4y ago
  For landscape people you get far better wide-angle lenses, auto-focus systems which are way more consistent at the 50 MP mark and composition+exposure helpers (e.g. distortion-corrected viewfinder, histograms, zooming to 800 % in the viewfinder). For people people you get eye-autofocus and eye-tracking (better DSLRs have done people and face tracking for ages, but one of the more en-vogue styles in people photography of the last couple years is ultra-large apertures with sharp eyes, and with DSLRs that's really pushing it, especially at 50 MP). For media people you tend to get better video support. The latest flagships (e.g. 8K capabilities of the Z9) start to infringe on cinema camera territory (though with none of the connectivity, which would add an unacceptable amount of bulk to a photo/hybrid camera). For sports people you get more images per image and no blackout at all (Z9 only, for now). For wildlife people you get quiet operation (no mirror, no shutter necessary, depending on the model). In terms of the image quality itself, the hypothetical spherical cow in a vacuum, there's no advantage per se, various DSLRs and mirrorless cameras use practically identical sensors. Tiny mark against mirrorless for PDAF pixels, but that's not a practical concern for any current camera. Shutter-less mirrorless avoid a possible source of IR contamination (the optical barrier used by the camera to time the shutter), but that's about it. Oh, and IBIS, obviously.
  - jmyeet 4y ago
    A lot of this is incorrect. > For landscape people you get far better wide-angle lenses What specifically? Just comparing Nikon mirrorless to Nikon DSLRs, the F-mount (for DSLRs) has, for example, the highly regarded 14-24mm f/2.8. What's the mirrorless equivalent to that? > For sports people you get more images per image I assume you mean more images per second? That much is true (eg 14fps for the D6 vs 30fps for the Z9 at full res). > ... no blackout at all (Z9 only, for now). This is... partially true. There is an inherent blackout in SLRs but that may or may not matter. Assume you're shooting at 1/500 shutter speed and you're continuous shooting on a Z9 you're going to get some inherent blackout because you won't be shooting 500fps (because you can't). But here's the big thing with DSLRs over mirrorless: input lag for target tracking. An optical viewfinder ("OVF") is just inherently faster than any electronic viewfinder ("EVF"). For a lot of people that doesn't matter. If you're trying to shoot an animal on the run or a racing car then it probably does. It's also worth noting that some DSLRs can also shoot shutterless and get a lot of the benefits of mirrorless.
    - dghlsakjg 4y ago
      > But here's the big thing with DSLRs over mirrorless: input lag for target tracking. An optical viewfinder ("OVF") is just inherently faster than any electronic viewfinder ("EVF"). For a lot of people that doesn't matter. If you're trying to shoot an animal on the run or a racing car then it probably does. The OVF lag on the high end models is significantly faster than the time it take the mirror to retract (a D5 SLR has about 40ms of shutter lag). This means that while you might have a very minimal lag on the EVF, you make up for it in shorter shutter lag. Just a note: I used to do Photojournalism for a living. This kind of precision timing is irrelevant for action shooting. Once AF and motor drive happened, the technique shifted from trying to hit the decisive moment, to just mashing the shutter and picking the best shot from the series.
      - mlyle 4y ago
        > The OVF lag on the high end models is significantly faster than the time it take the mirror to retract (a D5 SLR has about 40ms of shutter lag). This means that while you might have a very minimal lag on the EVF, you make up for it in shorter shutter lag. As you point out, 40ms delay doesn't matter for shutter timing. Coming at it from a gaming and controls perspective: delay can make it a little harder to track things, though. I don't know how big of a deal this is to real users. I do know that the sheer amount of blackout on almost all current mirrorless sucks. > Once AF and motor drive happened, the technique shifted from trying to hit the decisive moment, to just mashing the shutter and picking the best shot from the series. Yah, and this is a place mirrorless cameras win and even phone cameras perform very well-- 10 picture/second burst rate on iPhone which few DSLRs can match. Middle/lower end Canon now is hitting 15FPS mechanical shutter and 23FPS electronic/silent, which is absolutely nuts to me (I have memories of buying a "blindingly fast" 7FPS camera..)
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Mirrorless is incredibly common. Every major player has a full range of mirrorless options. Pentax is the last holdout not offering a mirrorless option. The last market segment that was holding out was the Pro and Prosumer segment since initially mirrorless lagged on feature parity, especially in AF. Mirrorless cameras have effectively reached parity now. Now there is, in real use, no advantage to SLR type cameras, and, pure guess, mirrorless are probably cheaper to make since you can dispense with an entire mechanical assembly.
  - jjav 4y ago
    > Now there is, in real use, no advantage to SLR type cameras There are big advantages of SLRs over mirrorless: battery life and speed. I dread the day if I ever have to go to mirrorless, I really don't want those drawbacks.

hanniabu 4y ago

What's the benefit of mirrorless and why isn't it more prominent today?

cheschire 4y ago
Some folks prioritize the quality of the image in the viewfinder, and mirrorless uses an electronic viewfinder. Other folks prioritize weight and size, and for them the mirrorless has clear advantages.
formerly_proven 4y ago
For landscape people you get far better wide-angle lenses, auto-focus systems which are way more consistent at the 50 MP mark and composition+exposure helpers (e.g. distortion-corrected viewfinder, histograms, zooming to 800 % in the viewfinder). For people people you get eye-autofocus and eye-tracking (better DSLRs have done people and face tracking for ages, but one of the more en-vogue styles in people photography of the last couple years is ultra-large apertures with sharp eyes, and with DSLRs that's really pushing it, especially at 50 MP). For media people you tend to get better video support. The latest flagships (e.g. 8K capabilities of the Z9) start to infringe on cinema camera territory (though with none of the connectivity, which would add an unacceptable amount of bulk to a photo/hybrid camera). For sports people you get more images per image and no blackout at all (Z9 only, for now). For wildlife people you get quiet operation (no mirror, no shutter necessary, depending on the model). In terms of the image quality itself, the hypothetical spherical cow in a vacuum, there's no advantage per se, various DSLRs and mirrorless cameras use practically identical sensors. Tiny mark against mirrorless for PDAF pixels, but that's not a practical concern for any current camera. Shutter-less mirrorless avoid a possible source of IR contamination (the optical barrier used by the camera to time the shutter), but that's about it. Oh, and IBIS, obviously.
- jmyeet 4y ago
  A lot of this is incorrect. > For landscape people you get far better wide-angle lenses What specifically? Just comparing Nikon mirrorless to Nikon DSLRs, the F-mount (for DSLRs) has, for example, the highly regarded 14-24mm f/2.8. What's the mirrorless equivalent to that? > For sports people you get more images per image I assume you mean more images per second? That much is true (eg 14fps for the D6 vs 30fps for the Z9 at full res). > ... no blackout at all (Z9 only, for now). This is... partially true. There is an inherent blackout in SLRs but that may or may not matter. Assume you're shooting at 1/500 shutter speed and you're continuous shooting on a Z9 you're going to get some inherent blackout because you won't be shooting 500fps (because you can't). But here's the big thing with DSLRs over mirrorless: input lag for target tracking. An optical viewfinder ("OVF") is just inherently faster than any electronic viewfinder ("EVF"). For a lot of people that doesn't matter. If you're trying to shoot an animal on the run or a racing car then it probably does. It's also worth noting that some DSLRs can also shoot shutterless and get a lot of the benefits of mirrorless.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    > But here's the big thing with DSLRs over mirrorless: input lag for target tracking. An optical viewfinder ("OVF") is just inherently faster than any electronic viewfinder ("EVF"). For a lot of people that doesn't matter. If you're trying to shoot an animal on the run or a racing car then it probably does. The OVF lag on the high end models is significantly faster than the time it take the mirror to retract (a D5 SLR has about 40ms of shutter lag). This means that while you might have a very minimal lag on the EVF, you make up for it in shorter shutter lag. Just a note: I used to do Photojournalism for a living. This kind of precision timing is irrelevant for action shooting. Once AF and motor drive happened, the technique shifted from trying to hit the decisive moment, to just mashing the shutter and picking the best shot from the series.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      > The OVF lag on the high end models is significantly faster than the time it take the mirror to retract (a D5 SLR has about 40ms of shutter lag). This means that while you might have a very minimal lag on the EVF, you make up for it in shorter shutter lag. As you point out, 40ms delay doesn't matter for shutter timing. Coming at it from a gaming and controls perspective: delay can make it a little harder to track things, though. I don't know how big of a deal this is to real users. I do know that the sheer amount of blackout on almost all current mirrorless sucks. > Once AF and motor drive happened, the technique shifted from trying to hit the decisive moment, to just mashing the shutter and picking the best shot from the series. Yah, and this is a place mirrorless cameras win and even phone cameras perform very well-- 10 picture/second burst rate on iPhone which few DSLRs can match. Middle/lower end Canon now is hitting 15FPS mechanical shutter and 23FPS electronic/silent, which is absolutely nuts to me (I have memories of buying a "blindingly fast" 7FPS camera..)
dghlsakjg 4y ago
Mirrorless is incredibly common. Every major player has a full range of mirrorless options. Pentax is the last holdout not offering a mirrorless option. The last market segment that was holding out was the Pro and Prosumer segment since initially mirrorless lagged on feature parity, especially in AF. Mirrorless cameras have effectively reached parity now. Now there is, in real use, no advantage to SLR type cameras, and, pure guess, mirrorless are probably cheaper to make since you can dispense with an entire mechanical assembly.
- jjav 4y ago
  > Now there is, in real use, no advantage to SLR type cameras There are big advantages of SLRs over mirrorless: battery life and speed. I dread the day if I ever have to go to mirrorless, I really don't want those drawbacks.