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This is why I don’t work at a corporation, because the entire model is awful. It’s great at making money, but that’s about the only redeeming quality as far as

This is why I don’t work at a corporation, because the entire model is awful. It’s great at making money, but that’s about the only redeeming quality as far as I’m concerned. If corporations were countries, they would be dictatorships. If corporations are people as the Supreme Court would have us believe, they are most certainly psychopaths. As much as people complain about academia here, I’ve found a home where layoffs don’t have to happen. There’s a permanent home here for people with tenure, guaranteed for life. We vote on who our boss is and they serve a limited term, after which they return to the rank and file. We have a democratic body that has power at the university level and we all get a vote. We vote on practically every decision made in the department. And even if you don’t have tenure and there is no need for you in the future, you don’t find out about that on Friday with your income, healthcare, relationships, and housing all in question by Monday. How anxiety inducing! We tell you at least a semester in advance instead of escorting you out like a potential arsonist looking to burn the place to the ground. And imagine that, the place is still standing. Don’t get me wrong there’s a lot wrong with the model at many levels — it’s political and dogmatic, inefficient and bureaucratic. But at least it’s a different model that doesn’t have to be cruel by nature.

calvinmorrison 4y ago
I found my experience with academia to be just as anxiety inducing. Fledgling lab, a half dozen PhD candidates and a boss who really wanted funding. Many they were all stressed about getting papers accepted, getting grants and so forth. And very personally, you know it was up to them to get it done. At least at the company I don't have to worry about that shit as directly as a worker.
- ModernMech 4y ago
  There are always stresses at work relating to the job that needs to be done, sure. I guess if you want to be a worker then academia would be stressful, because the job of professor is more like startup founder than employee. While applying for grants can be stressful if you don’t get one, there’s always another. You get 3 attempts to apply for a CAREER award! The same goes for papers; if it’s rejected just shop it at the next venue and it’ll be accepted eventually if the research is quality. It can be stressful but no single thing is ever do or die. They say “publish ir perish” but academia is filled with 2nd and 3rd chances. I feel like a lot of the stress is self inflicted by type-a personalities who need to be perfect all the time, people who never got a B in their lives. Even on tenure track, you know you’re guaranteed a job for 6 years as long as you are trying and making some progress. But if you aren’t performing at the level of getting tenure, that’s made clear way ahead of time in the (rare) cases I’ve seen in my department.
willcipriano 4y ago
From what I hear from other academics on here, that world is way more cutthroat. There is even a saying "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low." Perhaps you lucked out?
theoldlove 4y ago
I think academia is pretty sweet for the people with tenure, agreed. It's just hell for the postdocs, lecturers, adjuncts, ph.d. students without funding, etc., who have no stability, no voice, and paltry income in the system. As someone who was told at the beginning of the term that he would have no job at the end of it, I'm not sure that foreknowledge was really less anxiety inducing than being told with no warning. It was more like knowing the end of the world was coming, and you were powerless to change it. And equally cruel, I'd say.
- ModernMech 4y ago
  Adjuncts and postdocs yes. Ph.D. students without funding... quit now, that's a really bad deal. But lecturers not so much anymore, that position is changing across academia. I'm a lecturer and I have a renewable 5 year contract where I'm guaranteed a job for that time. That's more job stability than most people have, where they can be canned on any given Friday. As far as voice, lecturers have a vote in the faculty senate, and they have a vote in our department. They even have a vote in choosing our chair! How many workers get a vote in choosing their boss? Lecturers can even become chair or vice chair if they want; our current vice chair was a lecturer. As far as income, it's definitely lower than industry and tenured faculty, but lecturers also have a full 4 months off every year, which is something money can't buy in almost any profession. YMMV at your school, but like I said, the lecturer role is becoming much more attractive at many schools. > It was more like knowing the end of the world was coming, and you were powerless to change it. And equally cruel, I'd say. Help me try to understand, what would not be cruel? The tone of this thread seems to be that canning a worker with not enough warning is cruel, but you're saying too much warning is just as cruel? You're given 14 weeks to find a new job, and they'll pay you that entire time. It's pretty much the softest let-go I can think of. What process would you prefer?
zenithd 4y ago

calvinmorrison 4y ago

I found my experience with academia to be just as anxiety inducing. Fledgling lab, a half dozen PhD candidates and a boss who really wanted funding. Many they were all stressed about getting papers accepted, getting grants and so forth. And very personally, you know it was up to them to get it done. At least at the company I don't have to worry about that shit as directly as a worker.

ModernMech 4y ago
There are always stresses at work relating to the job that needs to be done, sure. I guess if you want to be a worker then academia would be stressful, because the job of professor is more like startup founder than employee. While applying for grants can be stressful if you don’t get one, there’s always another. You get 3 attempts to apply for a CAREER award! The same goes for papers; if it’s rejected just shop it at the next venue and it’ll be accepted eventually if the research is quality. It can be stressful but no single thing is ever do or die. They say “publish ir perish” but academia is filled with 2nd and 3rd chances. I feel like a lot of the stress is self inflicted by type-a personalities who need to be perfect all the time, people who never got a B in their lives. Even on tenure track, you know you’re guaranteed a job for 6 years as long as you are trying and making some progress. But if you aren’t performing at the level of getting tenure, that’s made clear way ahead of time in the (rare) cases I’ve seen in my department.

willcipriano 4y ago

From what I hear from other academics on here, that world is way more cutthroat. There is even a saying "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low." Perhaps you lucked out?

theoldlove 4y ago

I think academia is pretty sweet for the people with tenure, agreed. It's just hell for the postdocs, lecturers, adjuncts, ph.d. students without funding, etc., who have no stability, no voice, and paltry income in the system. As someone who was told at the beginning of the term that he would have no job at the end of it, I'm not sure that foreknowledge was really less anxiety inducing than being told with no warning. It was more like knowing the end of the world was coming, and you were powerless to change it. And equally cruel, I'd say.

ModernMech 4y ago
Adjuncts and postdocs yes. Ph.D. students without funding... quit now, that's a really bad deal. But lecturers not so much anymore, that position is changing across academia. I'm a lecturer and I have a renewable 5 year contract where I'm guaranteed a job for that time. That's more job stability than most people have, where they can be canned on any given Friday. As far as voice, lecturers have a vote in the faculty senate, and they have a vote in our department. They even have a vote in choosing our chair! How many workers get a vote in choosing their boss? Lecturers can even become chair or vice chair if they want; our current vice chair was a lecturer. As far as income, it's definitely lower than industry and tenured faculty, but lecturers also have a full 4 months off every year, which is something money can't buy in almost any profession. YMMV at your school, but like I said, the lecturer role is becoming much more attractive at many schools. > It was more like knowing the end of the world was coming, and you were powerless to change it. And equally cruel, I'd say. Help me try to understand, what would not be cruel? The tone of this thread seems to be that canning a worker with not enough warning is cruel, but you're saying too much warning is just as cruel? You're given 14 weeks to find a new job, and they'll pay you that entire time. It's pretty much the softest let-go I can think of. What process would you prefer?

zenithd 4y ago