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I also find it odd to think differing names of places in a foreign language as butchering. I like how München (Munich) is called Monaco in Italian. But if we d

I also find it odd to think differing names of places in a foreign language as butchering. I like how München (Munich) is called Monaco in Italian. But if we do think it's butchering, why don't we refer to Germans as Deutsche in English, call the country Deutschland instead of Germany?

gkanai 4y ago
Same thing with Japan. Japanese call the country Nippon.
- frivoal 4y ago
  Or, more commonly, Nihon. Nippon is more emphatic, which is occasionally taken to make it sound more nationalistic.
saiya-jin 4y ago
I'd strongly prefer is this 'butchering' would be happening only in cases the original name is literally un-pronounciable in given language. But no, everybody must be pissing on their little sandbox - Neuchatel has to be Neuburg, although both are perfectly pronounciable in both languages. US has to be États-Unis. Practically every effin' language has this. I'd say using original names and how they sound shows some proper respect towards given place, country, people, culture and its history. Shows you actually make some effort, and also shows having some class. But I can only wish this was a widespread opinion.
- andybak 4y ago
  For the record, I'm fairly sure how to pronounce Neuburg but much less confident I'd get Neuchatel correct.
  - gumby 4y ago
    Especially when the circumflex has been left out so you have no reminder of how used to be written and pronounced. États-Unis is quite respectful as it literally describes how the country wants to be considered: United States. It is only if you don’t find the term meaningful that way you would want someone to uncomprehendingly parrot the sounds.
MonkeyClub 4y ago
> why don't we refer to Germans as Deutsche in English, call the country Deutschland instead of Germany? Because the Germans aren’t throwing a fit about how other countries are addressing them in their languages, while the Turks currently are. Given how Turkey currently has insane inflation and internal political turmoil with Erdogan’s opposition rising, there’s a line of thought that has war as the only way to maintain power for Erdogan, much like how a coup solidified his power in 2016. Turkey’s neighbors probably should start feeling like Ukraine before February, or like Poland before September 1939.
korlja 4y ago
Forget towns. Talk about the fucking name of the country. Actually, the name is "Deutschland" (if you leave out the political decorations declaring it a federal republic). One should think, knowing where the word comes from, that the english name would be "Dutchland". But it isn't, instead they call someone else "Dutch". Admittedly a neighbouring country with some shared history and origins waaay back then, but still. Tyskland is great, thanks to everyone using a variation of that. Then there is "Germany". Way back then, when the romans tried and failed to establish a longterm presence on the other side of the rivers rhine and danube that might have been ok, but that was 2000 years ago. For at least the last 500 years, "deutsch" or some variation thereof was official. Germans are also only part of the historic inhabitants of what forms modern-day Germany, there are also a few Slavic tribes in there. Also, there are many German tribes that didn't settle in what is modern-day Germany, instead they now form the nordic states, the Netherlands, parts of Switzerland and Austria. So mostly wrong, no fish. Alemania is even more wrong, because that actually only talks about the southwestern german tribes, in current southwest Germany and northeastern Switzerland. "Alemannisch" strictly only describes the traditions of that region in german. Nothing else. Then there is Niemcy and stuff. I've been told it means something like "mutes" or "the ones you cannot comprehend". I'm not sure if that is supposed to be an insult or a compliment, but really, after you started talking to us you couldn't be arsed to ask what we call ourselves? Talking about insults: Saksa might be considered a compliment or an insult in Germany, depending on where you are. Historically, saxon tribes settled in the northwest (later England, but that is not relevant here). This corresponds to a part of what currently is the German land Niedersachsen. There are two Länder that are called something with "sachsen", but they are faking it to get a grab at the former glory. Talking about "glory", it is quite the opposite in southern Germany, there nobody likes "Sachsen" and considers them the worst kind of "Preussen". Which are all considered insults there. There are a few others, getting more and more weird until: Navajo: Béésh Bich’ahii Bikéyah ("Metal Cap-wearer Land"), in reference to Stahlhelm-wearing German soldiers.[1] I can get behind that. But the rest, please stop it, it is "Deutschland". Or I might have to wear my metal cap again ;) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany
- orbital-decay 4y ago
  >Then there is Niemcy and stuff. I've been told it means something like "mutes" or "the ones you cannot comprehend". I'm not sure if that is supposed to be an insult or a compliment, but really, after you started talking to us you couldn't be arsed to ask what we call ourselves? It was a common name for all foreigners, not just Germans. During a certain era, German traders were the most common foreigners in Slavic lands, so the name stuck with Germans.
stefantalpalaru 4y ago
jcranmer 4y ago
Some other fun country butcherings: Magyarország, Hrvatska, Suomi, Ellada. For which the English names are the oh-so-obvious Hungary, Croatia, Finland, and Greece. I haven't even left Europe yet!
ars 4y ago
In Hebrew, India is called Hodu, which seems to be a name unique to Hebrew (although with quite ancient origins).
amilios 4y ago
Interesting! In Greek Munich is also Μόναχο (Monacho/Monaco).

gkanai 4y ago

Same thing with Japan. Japanese call the country Nippon.

frivoal 4y ago
Or, more commonly, Nihon. Nippon is more emphatic, which is occasionally taken to make it sound more nationalistic.

saiya-jin 4y ago

I'd strongly prefer is this 'butchering' would be happening only in cases the original name is literally un-pronounciable in given language. But no, everybody must be pissing on their little sandbox - Neuchatel has to be Neuburg, although both are perfectly pronounciable in both languages. US has to be États-Unis. Practically every effin' language has this. I'd say using original names and how they sound shows some proper respect towards given place, country, people, culture and its history. Shows you actually make some effort, and also shows having some class. But I can only wish this was a widespread opinion.

andybak 4y ago
For the record, I'm fairly sure how to pronounce Neuburg but much less confident I'd get Neuchatel correct.
- gumby 4y ago
  Especially when the circumflex has been left out so you have no reminder of how used to be written and pronounced. États-Unis is quite respectful as it literally describes how the country wants to be considered: United States. It is only if you don’t find the term meaningful that way you would want someone to uncomprehendingly parrot the sounds.

MonkeyClub 4y ago

> why don't we refer to Germans as Deutsche in English, call the country Deutschland instead of Germany? Because the Germans aren’t throwing a fit about how other countries are addressing them in their languages, while the Turks currently are. Given how Turkey currently has insane inflation and internal political turmoil with Erdogan’s opposition rising, there’s a line of thought that has war as the only way to maintain power for Erdogan, much like how a coup solidified his power in 2016. Turkey’s neighbors probably should start feeling like Ukraine before February, or like Poland before September 1939.

korlja 4y ago

Forget towns. Talk about the fucking name of the country. Actually, the name is "Deutschland" (if you leave out the political decorations declaring it a federal republic). One should think, knowing where the word comes from, that the english name would be "Dutchland". But it isn't, instead they call someone else "Dutch". Admittedly a neighbouring country with some shared history and origins waaay back then, but still. Tyskland is great, thanks to everyone using a variation of that. Then there is "Germany". Way back then, when the romans tried and failed to establish a longterm presence on the other side of the rivers rhine and danube that might have been ok, but that was 2000 years ago. For at least the last 500 years, "deutsch" or some variation thereof was official. Germans are also only part of the historic inhabitants of what forms modern-day Germany, there are also a few Slavic tribes in there. Also, there are many German tribes that didn't settle in what is modern-day Germany, instead they now form the nordic states, the Netherlands, parts of Switzerland and Austria. So mostly wrong, no fish. Alemania is even more wrong, because that actually only talks about the southwestern german tribes, in current southwest Germany and northeastern Switzerland. "Alemannisch" strictly only describes the traditions of that region in german. Nothing else. Then there is Niemcy and stuff. I've been told it means something like "mutes" or "the ones you cannot comprehend". I'm not sure if that is supposed to be an insult or a compliment, but really, after you started talking to us you couldn't be arsed to ask what we call ourselves? Talking about insults: Saksa might be considered a compliment or an insult in Germany, depending on where you are. Historically, saxon tribes settled in the northwest (later England, but that is not relevant here). This corresponds to a part of what currently is the German land Niedersachsen. There are two Länder that are called something with "sachsen", but they are faking it to get a grab at the former glory. Talking about "glory", it is quite the opposite in southern Germany, there nobody likes "Sachsen" and considers them the worst kind of "Preussen". Which are all considered insults there. There are a few others, getting more and more weird until: Navajo: Béésh Bich’ahii Bikéyah ("Metal Cap-wearer Land"), in reference to Stahlhelm-wearing German soldiers.[1] I can get behind that. But the rest, please stop it, it is "Deutschland". Or I might have to wear my metal cap again ;) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Germany

orbital-decay 4y ago
>Then there is Niemcy and stuff. I've been told it means something like "mutes" or "the ones you cannot comprehend". I'm not sure if that is supposed to be an insult or a compliment, but really, after you started talking to us you couldn't be arsed to ask what we call ourselves? It was a common name for all foreigners, not just Germans. During a certain era, German traders were the most common foreigners in Slavic lands, so the name stuck with Germans.

stefantalpalaru 4y ago

jcranmer 4y ago

Some other fun country butcherings: Magyarország, Hrvatska, Suomi, Ellada. For which the English names are the oh-so-obvious Hungary, Croatia, Finland, and Greece. I haven't even left Europe yet!

ars 4y ago

In Hebrew, India is called Hodu, which seems to be a name unique to Hebrew (although with quite ancient origins).

amilios 4y ago

Interesting! In Greek Munich is also Μόναχο (Monacho/Monaco).