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Food-seeking behavior is triggered by skin ultraviolet exposure in males
- incompatible 4y agoInteresting. How about post-menopause women?
- vanderZwan 4y agoIs there something biologically special about post-menopause women that makes you wonder if this applies to them?
- incompatible 4y agoLower estrogen. The article says estrogen interferes with the effect in women.
- vanderZwan 4y agoThanks, that makes sense. To the other comments: I understand that a woman undergoes many changes when she goes through menopause. I was curious about which one in particular would be relevant here.
- bloppe 4y ago
- EdwardDiego 4y ago> Is there something biologically special about post-menopause women Many things. Hormone levels alter dramatically, so the question you're replying to is very valid.
- Broken_Hippo 4y agoThere are some risk factors that really change once women go through menopause. This is directly related to hormones. Basically, some risk factors that weren't issues in women pre-menopause start to mirror the risk factor that men face. The biggest one I can think of is heart health. Before menopause, less risk. Afterwards, the risk is more equal to men's risks. And granted, I'm talking generally. I'm not a doctor, simply female and know these risks will change for me. And I also am simplifying here: Male/female is used in a general sense and I really don't know how hormones affect transfolks' risks (for example).
- incompatible 4y agoApparently one of the side-effects of menopause can be weight gain. I was thinking of that with my original comment, that if less estrogen stopped the blocking of increased ghrelin promotion and caused an increase in appetite, it could explain (some part) of the effect.
- bregma 4y agoBiologically there isn't much difference between a man and a post-menopausal woman. At that point the differences are almost entirely sociological.
- adrianN 4y agoI'm pretty sure most men have higher testosterone than post-menopausal women.
- simiones 4y agoBiologically, there is a huge difference between a man and a post-menopausal woman. At best, you could say that hormonally they are more similar, though even that is not entirely true. But hormones have many long term effects that menopause doesn't and can't erase (for example, post-menopausal women's gonads do not typically descend from their abdomens into a pouch, as they tend to do in males under the effects of testosterone; post-menopausal women also have significantly higher rates of uterine cancers than men do).
- aliswe 4y agoThanks ... you made my day!
- mettamage 4y agoMice study, should be in title?
- mrcode007 4y agoIt says right there in the paper “ In both mice and human males”
- texaslonghorn5 4y agoThey missed a chance to say "in males both Of Mice and Men"
- RC_ITR 4y agoIt’s become a meme to point out studies are done on just mice (to contextualize how sensationalist science media can be), but it’s had the effect of making commenting contests where the first one to point it out gets many upvotes. So people seek it out without reading the full paper
- michaelt 4y agoAlthough mice are mentioned in the abstract, it seems like they tested mice and humans, and put both sets of results in one paper: "In both mice and human males, increased appetite is correlated with elevated levels of circulating ghrelin."
- mettamage 4y agoOh, whoops, read too fast, my bad.
- amatic 4y agoNo, they also have human participants: > To further explore the difference between the response of men and women to solar exposure, we asked volunteers (n = 5 men and n = 5 women; age 18–55 years) to expose, for about 25 min, to the sun on a bright sunny midday (2,000 mJ/cm2 UVB). [...] Our data demonstrate that, while both sexes increase their response to environmental cues and decrease their extracellular vesicle pathways, in terms of the immune system and metabolism, men and women react in the distinct manner
- andrewgleave 4y agoAn explanation why BBQs are the only time many men get interested in cooking. /s
- whoomp12342 4y agoI think that has more to do with being able to play with open fire
- Aaargh20318 4y agoSo does this mean that sunscreen helps with weight loss ?
- hgomersall 4y agoMaybe, unless you use sunscreen that's also an endocrine disrupter, then all bets are off.
- rtomanek 4y agoPretty sure it does. Given how nasty it tastes, I lose all my appetite when I try to use it as condiment.
- xattt 4y agoSunscreen also has strong emetic and laxative properties as well.
- elteto 4y agoI prefer to get my zinc supplement from cooking in galvanized containers.
- throwaway_4ever 4y agohttps://youtu.be/jE35YUGtE9s https://youtu.be/jE35YUGtE9s
- goldenkey 4y agoIf you mean, is goopy and smells like a chemical factory, then yeah, I guess it'd turn off one's appetite a bit. Wouldn't want to hold food in the same hand I'd rubbed it on with.
- Aaargh20318 4y agoNah, I live in Europe so we have the good sunscreen, unlike the US [1]. 1: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/07/us-sunscreen-ingredients-outdated-technology-better-eu-asia/661433/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/07/us-su...
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- Flankk 4y agoThat's the first I've heard that solar radiation protects against cancer. That's enough evidence for me to stop supplementing vitamin D and go outside. Next time hesitate before telling us the thing responsible for life on earth is bad. Really great experts we have who also got the food pyramid and multivitamins wrong. The scientific method isn't working too well if it's consistently churning out peer reviewed false conclusions.
- snovv_crash 4y agoEverything in moderation. Fresh water is bad for you if it prevents you from breathing.
- RenThraysk 4y agoOr cause hyponatremia
- Swenrekcah 4y agoEven if you can breathe fine, drinking way too much water can be fatal! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication
- thombat 4y agoThere's more than one kind of cancer... specifically here it seems the effect of interest is on colon cancer. So you might be trading off the risk of skin cancer vs colon. And for higher latitudes vitamin D supplementation is generally a winter issue, when people are unlikely to get enough sunlight on their skin for either sunburn or vitamin D production. Unless you're actually following "the experts" directly yourself (and I certainly don't) what you're really reading is journalism based on press releases based on abstracts of papers. So before seeking to overthrow the scientific method, see if you could get a better source of advice based upon it.
- titanium1701 4y agoI'll take skin cancer over colon cancer any day, given it's generally the least severe.
- cassianoleal 4y agoPersonal anecdote inbound. Sun exposure gives me a lot of energy (not excess exposure but I have a pretty high threshold). I don't want to eat much when it's sunny. I don't need it, and a full belly makes me less likely to engage in activities because I'm heavier and it's harder to breathe. I have very little food and usually light meals, like lots of salad, fruits and sea food, and mostly at night/evening.
- namdnay 4y agoIs that the Sun or the heat?
- cassianoleal 4y agoI eat normally (sometimes too much) when I'm in a heated space without sunlight.
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- 1_over_n 4y agoI don't know how the study was set up because i haven't looked yet, i will be looking to see if being awake vs asleep is a confounding variable.
- hackernewds 4y agosun exposure makes me sleepy
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- yosito 4y ago.
- mcculley 4y agoThe paper describes observations of both mice and humans.
- themitigating 4y agoThis is covered everytime a study comes out, mice are similar to humans https://www.yourgenome.org/facts/why-use-the-mouse-in-research/ https://www.yourgenome.org/facts/why-use-the-mouse-in-resear... Your comment that 'you're not a mouse so this doesn't apply' is an overly simplistic conclusion based solely on a visual observation that is repeated on Hackernews so often there needs to be a bot that replies
- bigDinosaur 4y agoIt's about as good a phrase as 'correlation does not imply causation'. Obviously it's wrong for any correlation that's the result of causation, but it's true enough to be a frustratingly good criticism despite its dumb simplicity. So it is with mice models which have repeatedly failed to transfer findings to humans. The list of reasons in your link is mainly about how easy they are to work with, and the 'similarities' is glossed over, but obviously there are vastly superior animal models which are dramatically closer to humans to test on than mice. It's just not done nearly as much due to how difficult it is, and arguably how horribly unethical it is to test on non-human apes.
- themitigating 4y agoSaying my source glosses over something doesn't mean the assertion is wrong, it only means it doesn't go into detail. Here's a tad more complex paper with examples https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987984/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987984/ The similarities and ethical concerns are why mice are used. However my original comment was because the post implied the research was wrong because they "don't look like mouse". Which I said was overy simplistic and arrogant. As if then a researcher reading that comment would suddenly realize "wait..were not mice, this and all other studies are worthless. I used mice for no reason but couldn't think of a reason not to or how they are different"
- sk8terboi 4y ago
- defrost 4y ago>> A meta-analysis of several research studies has found differing results for the influence of seasonality on food intake23. We, therefore, analyzed data from a 3-year national nutrition survey of approximately 3,000 people. Using a generalized linear model adjusted for age, we found a significant interaction (P <0.001) between sex and season, revealing that men are markedly affected by solar radiation and its seasonal fluctuation compared to women ... It's a correlation .. is "markedly affected by solar radiation" a reach when the same correlation exists for tempreture? Is it the UV or is it that men eat more and more active in the summer than in winter? Hmmm.
- et2o 4y agoThere is also some mouse experimental data
- defrost 4y agoSure .. does the effect correlate with both UV AND temp or have they ANOVA'd enough to say that that anything observed is predominently due to UV alone?
- Gatsky 4y agoThey work out the mechanism of UV induced orexia, then knockout the gene in the mouse thus abolishing the phenotype. They also work out why the effect is sexually dimorphic.
- fartsucker69 4y agothe mention that they controlled for age also directly says they didn't correct for anything else. e.g. if for whatever reason the male study population has a significant shift into any direction (income, physical characteristics like height, weight, etc.) bam you're entire data set is essentially useless. and this is almost certainly going to be the case. it's nigh impossible to get similar averages for all metrics in a male between female comparison. the data is very valuable on its own. but once again I have no idea how they think it remotely allows them to draw the specific conclusions regarding causality that they do.
- imgabe 4y agoHmm, I always get really hungry after going swimming, which I attributed to the exercise and extra calories burned to maintain body temperature because water conducts heat more efficiently. Maybe it’s also because it’s the only time a significant amount of my body is exposed to sunlight too.
- xeromal 4y agoYeah, I've always been curious as to why I'm so hungry after swimming but it makes a lot of sense. You don't seek a tree canopy and you're out in the sun for potentially hours. Ripe for bringing out the ooga ooga to find food.
- mensetmanusman 4y agoSwimming is extremely calorie intensive compared to exercise in the air :)
- toyg 4y agoSo sunshine makes you hungry, but also cold makes you hungry. So a moderately warm but cloudy country should have very thin citizens, for example the UK... oh wait
- rnestler 4y agoI assume this isn't meant too serious, but as far as I know cloud's do not necessarily block UV radiation. At least one can still get sunburned even on a cloudy day.
- wswope 4y agoClouds do very much attenuate UV radiation; how strongly they do so depends on their thickness/density. See ballpark figures here: https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/calculating-uv-index-0 https://www.epa.gov/sunsafety/calculating-uv-index-0
- diegoperini 4y agoClouds do not block junk food ads. They actually produce them :)
- WhompingWindows 4y agoFood seeking behavior =/= thin males =/= thin citizens. Lot of weak linkages happening there.
- petercooper 4y agoI find this sort of stuff quite interesting even if I don't understand the science at all. I was wondering the other day why I find calorie restriction incredibly easy in winter (and at night, generally), yet quite difficult in summer, so this jumped out at me! I can go 6pm-10am without a pang of hunger, yet my wife can't even get to sleep if she's hungry.
- whoomp12342 4y agointroducing: the dark diet. The challenge: stay in a dark room for a long time How much weight will YOU lose?
- FollowingTheDao 4y agoSo can low and high frequency EMFs trigger this same ghrelin response? Serious question since light is also an EMF. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tea-Museliani/publication/335137673_THE_EFFECT_OF_ELECTROMAGNETIC_FIELD_ON_AGGRESSIVE_AND_NON-AGGRESSIVE_RATS'_MEMORY/links/5f840c22a6fdccfd7b5aa363/THE-EFFECT-OF-ELECTROMAGNETIC-FIELD-ON-AGGRESSIVE-AND-NON-AGGRESSIVE-RATS-MEMORY.pdf https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tea-Museliani/publicati...
- tpmx 4y agoSo... evolutionary legacy from the cave dwelling era when the gender roles were more rigid?
- jonnycomputer 4y agoIn my view, guys who are overweight would be ill-advised to hide from the sun to lose weight. From their paper: "Our study revealed that UVB exposure enhances food-seeking behavior in males via ghrelin and a process that is prevented in females. ... UV is a well-established carcinogen, but avoiding the sun rays adversely impacts human health, too. Since ghrelin has anti-inflammatory properties, halts heart muscle wasting and decreases arterial pressure, ghrelin may be the mechanistic link between solar exposure and cardiovascular disease reduction. Moreover, ghrelin enhances insulin sensitivity in metabolic syndrome patients and in animal models of type II diabetes. ... In addition to its function in regulating energy homeostasis and the functions mentioned above, ghrelin also mediates glucose homeostasis, muscular atrophy, bone metabolism, stress and anxiety, adipogenesis and the immune system."
- jonnycomputer 4y agoI seem to recall also somewhere here on HN seeing a post about walking suppressing hunger? Ah, here it is; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31858063 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31858063 So if you're outside guys, walk!
- Khelavaster 4y agoSome melanocortin receptors drive appetite. We've known this for decades. Melanocortin receptor 1 controls skin darkening and natural skin color. We've known this for decades. Sunlight exposure triggers broad-spectrum melanocortin stimulating hormones. We've known this for decades. *Specifically: alpha-melanocyte stimulating hormone, beta-melanocyte stimulating hormone, and gamma-melanocyte stimulating hormone. They're all byproducts of proopiomelanocortin. Adrenocorticotropic hormone is a coproduct of some melanocyte stimulating hormones, and can optionally be cleaved into more melanocyte stimulating hormones.