3 ms·

> a lot of reasons why that is the case in practice Then why isn' it the case in eg Germany. Whats different.

rob74 4y ago
What's different in Germany (and most other European countries) is that there are legal requirements to give Y weeks of notice if someone has worked in the company for X years. Also, for layoffs ("betriebsbedingte Kündigung") there are certain rules that have to be followed, i.e. people who were hired later are generally the first on the chopping block, plus other criteria. What's not different is that most of the time you will be shown the door as quickly as possible. You get your notice time, and you get paid until your actual termination date, but you spend that time at home ("freigestellt").
- kqr 4y ago
  My experience in Sweden has been that employees are in normal circumstances trusted to work faithfully during their full notice period of three months. There's an informal understanding that one might not be as productive during those three months, but not that one would be actively malicious. Seems crazy to hire people in the first place that you don't trust!
  - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
    This is what I was getting at - the US seems to have a hostile relationship between employees and employers. I suspect this is mostly due to legal regulations and not necessarily due to a mistrusting culture per se, but I don't really know.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > You get your notice time, and you get paid until your actual termination date, but you spend that time at home ("freigestellt"). Isn’t the US model of severance pay better because you can take a new job while in your severance period.
  - rob74 4y ago
    There is that option too: if they want to get rid of you specifically (as opposed to just "reducing the headcount"), but the regulations say they can't legally get rid of you because they would e.g. have to get rid of people that were hired after you first, they can offer you an "Aufhebungsvertrag" ("termination/severance agreement") where you voluntarily agree to your employment being terminated in exchange for a (often quite sizable) sum of money.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > they would e.g. have to get rid of people that were hired after you first What’s the thinking behind this one? These rules are insane.
      - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
        > These rules are insane. They are. Its the result of shallow thinking, socialism and pure graft. People don't consider there are considerable downsides to these regulations, and simply think "protecting the workers" is good.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        How is ‘last in first out’ protecting workers?
        Tainnor 4y ago
        older people tend to be less employable
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        But it’s not ‘older’ it’s longer at the company. If they wanted older why not say that?
        Tainnor 4y ago
- sgift 4y ago
  > What's not different is that most of the time you will be shown the door as quickly as possible. You get your notice time, and you get paid until your actual termination date, but you spend that time at home ("freigestellt"). No, not really. Companies have that option but it's almost never used, only in extreme cases (e.g. when the company has a real reason to assume the employee would misuse their continued access).
fabian2k 4y ago
This also happens in Germany, but it depends on the case and isn't a hard rule. It's more likely to happen for people fired for cause, or if there are any other reasons that trust broke down. And even then it does not change anything about the employement duration, the employee is simply asked to not come into work anymore but is paid the remaining period as defined in the law or the contract.

What's different in Germany (and most other European countries) is that there are legal requirements to give Y weeks of notice if someone has worked in the company for X years. Also, for layoffs ("betriebsbedingte Kündigung") there are certain rules that have to be followed, i.e. people who were hired later are generally the first on the chopping block, plus other criteria. What's not different is that most of the time you will be shown the door as quickly as possible. You get your notice time, and you get paid until your actual termination date, but you spend that time at home ("freigestellt").

kqr 4y ago
My experience in Sweden has been that employees are in normal circumstances trusted to work faithfully during their full notice period of three months. There's an informal understanding that one might not be as productive during those three months, but not that one would be actively malicious. Seems crazy to hire people in the first place that you don't trust!
- MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
  This is what I was getting at - the US seems to have a hostile relationship between employees and employers. I suspect this is mostly due to legal regulations and not necessarily due to a mistrusting culture per se, but I don't really know.
chrisseaton 4y ago
> You get your notice time, and you get paid until your actual termination date, but you spend that time at home ("freigestellt"). Isn’t the US model of severance pay better because you can take a new job while in your severance period.
- rob74 4y ago
  There is that option too: if they want to get rid of you specifically (as opposed to just "reducing the headcount"), but the regulations say they can't legally get rid of you because they would e.g. have to get rid of people that were hired after you first, they can offer you an "Aufhebungsvertrag" ("termination/severance agreement") where you voluntarily agree to your employment being terminated in exchange for a (often quite sizable) sum of money.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > they would e.g. have to get rid of people that were hired after you first What’s the thinking behind this one? These rules are insane.
    - MrBuddyCasino 4y ago
      > These rules are insane. They are. Its the result of shallow thinking, socialism and pure graft. People don't consider there are considerable downsides to these regulations, and simply think "protecting the workers" is good.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        How is ‘last in first out’ protecting workers?
        Tainnor 4y ago
        older people tend to be less employable
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        But it’s not ‘older’ it’s longer at the company. If they wanted older why not say that?
      - Tainnor 4y ago
sgift 4y ago
> What's not different is that most of the time you will be shown the door as quickly as possible. You get your notice time, and you get paid until your actual termination date, but you spend that time at home ("freigestellt"). No, not really. Companies have that option but it's almost never used, only in extreme cases (e.g. when the company has a real reason to assume the employee would misuse their continued access).

fabian2k 4y ago

This also happens in Germany, but it depends on the case and isn't a hard rule. It's more likely to happen for people fired for cause, or if there are any other reasons that trust broke down. And even then it does not change anything about the employement duration, the employee is simply asked to not come into work anymore but is paid the remaining period as defined in the law or the contract.