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> He is by many international legal definitions a political prisoner No, this is bullshit. He committed several serious crimes and is now paying the price for

by Nursie 4y ago

> He is by many international legal definitions a political prisoner No, this is bullshit. He committed several serious crimes and is now paying the price for that. Yes, reform the legal system sensibly. No, we don't let drug kingpins who have built up a serious crime organisation walk.

ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago
> Yes, reform the legal system sensibly. No, we don't let drug kingpins who have built up a serious crime organisation walk. He ran a website. I don't call that a kingpin
- etchalon 4y ago
  The idea "it was just a website" is so absolutely weird.
  - throwaway654329 4y ago
    Indeed, it was the realization of his political ideals, no matter how wacky they may seem. He created a market place which was available as a tor hidden service. It was primarily a website and a communications hub, this makes it a kind of meta-criminal enterprise where he enabled other criminals to sell often illegal drugs, though there was apparently much more. The stated political goal at the time with using a website was to reduce violence at the time of a transaction. By that alone it was clearly more than a website.
throwaway654329 4y ago
Your claim doesn’t invalidate my claim. It may be that you personally disagree and that’s your political right. Like the man said: you’re entitled to your opinion but not your own facts. Take a look at the definition of relative and absolute political offenses. It’s not what is popularly understood. One need not be Che to be a political prisoner. For example, a person may become one after suffering torture in interrogation by the state or a proxy of the state after a completely normal criminal activity. Tell that last part to the families of people who have died in the opioid crisis. Drug kingpin is in the eye of the beholder, or prosecution team as we see. For example: Have you watched the CEOs of several major pharmaceutical companies walk with fines? Large fines, paid out of the very profits made from the sales of drugs that killed the customers. Too bad for Ross that he wasn’t smart enough to hire lawyers, and wear a suit, he might be as free as Zuckerberg or the CEO of any of the major Pharma companies making record settlements this year. Rather than reforming the legal system alone, why not free those harmed by the system we agree is in need of reform? Start by freeing all political prisoners.
- Nursie 4y ago
  > Your claim doesn’t invalidate my claim. Yes, it does. Ross Ulbricht is not a political prisoner, he is a run of the mill criminal prisoner. Sorry if that offends you. > Too bad for Ross that he wasn’t smart enough Too bad for Ross that he laughed in the face of the authorities, deliberately built a criminal trafficking organisation and profited from the trade of known illegal substances, while attempting to order hits on people. He's a scumbag. This equivocation about the pharma industry is utterly laughable, the situation isn't in the slightest bit comparable. > Start by freeing all political prisoners. Which would leave Ross Ulbricht still in jail because he's not one of those.
  - throwaway654329 4y ago
    Does the U.S. justice system in your estimation have any political prisoners? If so, could you provide a name of a current prisoner? In my view the answer is clearly yes. One kind is a prisoner of conscience. Prisoners of conscience are not claiming innocence, for example, rather usually the status is a commentary on the unjustness of laws or of punishment. He probably would never be considered as such by Amnesty International because of the extremely questionable murder for hire charges. Just a hint of a such a thing can sink an Amnesty endorsement of a prisoner. There are other kinds of political prisoners. One can be a common criminal and be fairly and correctly considered a political prisoner due to political circumstances. The war on drugs is a political circumstance which results in disproportionate sentences. Consider that nearly all terrorism and espionage charges generally fall into the classic categories of relative or absolute political crimes. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_prisoner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_prisoner and note: “A political prisoner is someone imprisoned for their political activity. The political offense is not always the official reason for the prisoner's detention.” In his case the majority of his charges are drug or conspiracy charges which are a major political issue for most of the western world at this time and at the time of his incarceration. Furthermore his incredible habit of journaling clearly shows his political views as they extensively detail the war on drugs, and his attempts to allow people to have access to a market for drugs that is safer than the street. American drug laws as seen by most of the rest of the world are insanely harsh in their punishment. Consider The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe definition c, d, and e from the Wikipedia link. Do you dispute the judge sentenced him harshly to send a message to others? Do you believe his trial wasn’t marred by unbelievable corruption where several involved officers were arrested and jailed for their conduct? He may very well be a scumbag, my claims aren’t a defense of him personally. Rather please try to read them as a good faith condemnation of the American judicial and American penal system. End the war on drugs, and end the insanely bad conditions for all prisoners. No one should have to suffer what he is suffering in prison, nor a tainted process which led him to prison. No one deserves double life sentences only to be beaten and (almost certainly, if rumors are to be believed) raped in prison for refusing to join a prison gang as a matter of literal personal political beliefs. But you can tell me he’s not a political prisoner and that he gets what he deserves. That mostly tells me about you, and not about him.

by Nursie 4y ago

ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago

> Yes, reform the legal system sensibly. No, we don't let drug kingpins who have built up a serious crime organisation walk. He ran a website. I don't call that a kingpin

etchalon 4y ago
The idea "it was just a website" is so absolutely weird.
- throwaway654329 4y ago
  Indeed, it was the realization of his political ideals, no matter how wacky they may seem. He created a market place which was available as a tor hidden service. It was primarily a website and a communications hub, this makes it a kind of meta-criminal enterprise where he enabled other criminals to sell often illegal drugs, though there was apparently much more. The stated political goal at the time with using a website was to reduce violence at the time of a transaction. By that alone it was clearly more than a website.

throwaway654329 4y ago

Your claim doesn’t invalidate my claim. It may be that you personally disagree and that’s your political right. Like the man said: you’re entitled to your opinion but not your own facts. Take a look at the definition of relative and absolute political offenses. It’s not what is popularly understood. One need not be Che to be a political prisoner. For example, a person may become one after suffering torture in interrogation by the state or a proxy of the state after a completely normal criminal activity. Tell that last part to the families of people who have died in the opioid crisis. Drug kingpin is in the eye of the beholder, or prosecution team as we see. For example: Have you watched the CEOs of several major pharmaceutical companies walk with fines? Large fines, paid out of the very profits made from the sales of drugs that killed the customers. Too bad for Ross that he wasn’t smart enough to hire lawyers, and wear a suit, he might be as free as Zuckerberg or the CEO of any of the major Pharma companies making record settlements this year. Rather than reforming the legal system alone, why not free those harmed by the system we agree is in need of reform? Start by freeing all political prisoners.

Nursie 4y ago
> Your claim doesn’t invalidate my claim. Yes, it does. Ross Ulbricht is not a political prisoner, he is a run of the mill criminal prisoner. Sorry if that offends you. > Too bad for Ross that he wasn’t smart enough Too bad for Ross that he laughed in the face of the authorities, deliberately built a criminal trafficking organisation and profited from the trade of known illegal substances, while attempting to order hits on people. He's a scumbag. This equivocation about the pharma industry is utterly laughable, the situation isn't in the slightest bit comparable. > Start by freeing all political prisoners. Which would leave Ross Ulbricht still in jail because he's not one of those.
- throwaway654329 4y ago
  Does the U.S. justice system in your estimation have any political prisoners? If so, could you provide a name of a current prisoner? In my view the answer is clearly yes. One kind is a prisoner of conscience. Prisoners of conscience are not claiming innocence, for example, rather usually the status is a commentary on the unjustness of laws or of punishment. He probably would never be considered as such by Amnesty International because of the extremely questionable murder for hire charges. Just a hint of a such a thing can sink an Amnesty endorsement of a prisoner. There are other kinds of political prisoners. One can be a common criminal and be fairly and correctly considered a political prisoner due to political circumstances. The war on drugs is a political circumstance which results in disproportionate sentences. Consider that nearly all terrorism and espionage charges generally fall into the classic categories of relative or absolute political crimes. Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_prisoner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_prisoner and note: “A political prisoner is someone imprisoned for their political activity. The political offense is not always the official reason for the prisoner's detention.” In his case the majority of his charges are drug or conspiracy charges which are a major political issue for most of the western world at this time and at the time of his incarceration. Furthermore his incredible habit of journaling clearly shows his political views as they extensively detail the war on drugs, and his attempts to allow people to have access to a market for drugs that is safer than the street. American drug laws as seen by most of the rest of the world are insanely harsh in their punishment. Consider The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe definition c, d, and e from the Wikipedia link. Do you dispute the judge sentenced him harshly to send a message to others? Do you believe his trial wasn’t marred by unbelievable corruption where several involved officers were arrested and jailed for their conduct? He may very well be a scumbag, my claims aren’t a defense of him personally. Rather please try to read them as a good faith condemnation of the American judicial and American penal system. End the war on drugs, and end the insanely bad conditions for all prisoners. No one should have to suffer what he is suffering in prison, nor a tainted process which led him to prison. No one deserves double life sentences only to be beaten and (almost certainly, if rumors are to be believed) raped in prison for refusing to join a prison gang as a matter of literal personal political beliefs. But you can tell me he’s not a political prisoner and that he gets what he deserves. That mostly tells me about you, and not about him.