4 ms·

I remember an English professor who I considered an extremely talented writer. He said, “you think I’m talented because you never had to suffer through the doze

by hluska 4y ago

I remember an English professor who I considered an extremely talented writer. He said, “you think I’m talented because you never had to suffer through the dozens of unreadable drafts that my editor had to.” Later on, I started working with an editor and sure enough, the editor had to suffer through unreadable drafts but the end reader had no idea how incompetent I was. They could be excused for thinking I have a bit of talent when in reality, I just found someone with enough patience to massage my crap. So I would add in a number four. Yes, it’s important to write. But having a good editor who can see through all the crap you’ve internalized and who can help you deliver the right words?? That’s just about priceless…

fl001 4y ago
That's very true and correct. An editor at help, makes things more clearer. It's clear and clean...
jeffreyames 4y ago
How did you find an editor? Do you pay them or do they work pro bono?
- hluska 4y ago
  Funny (and costly) story. My friend Stacey and I started a magazine. Midway through working on the first issue, we realized that we didn’t know a thing about publishing. So, we recruited a third co-founder. That magazine eventually failed but I was hooked. I started paying her to help me and when her life got too busy, I started paying other editors. Once I worked with one, I knew exactly what I was looking for so it’s been easy finding editors since. Without that experience, it would have been a lot of trial and error. For example, I can write very quickly. Because of this, I write far better when I work with an editor who really tears my work apart. If an editor sugar coats too much, draft+1 often ends up worse. But if they’re direct and try to hurt my feelings, draft+1 will be closer.
  - abathur 4y ago
    What was your magazine about? This models a good amount of reflection and humility. It's hard to take a rough critique. At least when it comes to code, there's an ultimate ~deterministic oracle (and style concerns can be respected or dismissed). I vaguely thought I had a good bi-directional editor<->poet friendship during undergrad, but it fell apart over some personal issues. We've reconnected, but I ~lost my muse in the meantime. I've also wondered a little if it'd be worth trying to form something on the spectrum from a little editor dyad to a tetrad for technical blogging.
- ghaff 4y ago
  It really depends. A very good competent friend can help you. For technical, at least adjacent, articles there are online pubs who will work with you so long as the content is at least ok. But no one is going to edit a book for you for free and a publisher has at least a middling high bar to take you on.
  - hluska 4y ago
    If you’re going with a friend, make sure they’re extremely good editors. I’ve become a good enough editor but still can’t do my friends’ writing justice. When I know people reasonably well, I understand how they communicate and find myself overlooking some grammatical quirks because I’m used to them. When I work with a near stranger, I can’t overlook anything - the piece either stands on its own or falls flat. I’m only good enough so your mileage will vary if you’re friends with extremely competent editors. But if you work with a friend and your writing doesn’t improve, you may be working with too good of a friend.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Oh I agree with that. I've seen people in tears after editors have finished with going through their work. You don't need to be nasty of course but you do need to be merciless.
bambax 4y ago
Very true, but it's not easy (or cheap) to find a good editor. There was a Launch HN recently on this very topic I believe. But, one can learn to be their own editor. It's not easy, it's unnatural, and it's not as good as an external editor, but it's better than nothing. The trick is to change the point of view, walk in the shoes of the reader.
- Lutger 4y ago
  Another trick is to wait. First write the post or email, then leave it alone for a while. This makes it easier to change the point of view. Somehow I also often find it easier to see possible improvements after I published something. I often edit when possible after posting. It is annoying, but it does have the some effect. Or if I write markdown, render it in some nice formatted view - that also helps to distance a bit.
- Kye 4y ago
  I think it's important for any writer to subject their work to an editor at least once in their lives. No amount of self-directed practice and learning is likely to beat what you find out about your writing by having a whole other brain take a critical look.
- ayewo 4y ago
  Foster had their Launch HN recently to provide on-demand editing https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31850439 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31850439

by hluska 4y ago

fl001 4y ago

That's very true and correct. An editor at help, makes things more clearer. It's clear and clean...

jeffreyames 4y ago

How did you find an editor? Do you pay them or do they work pro bono?

hluska 4y ago
Funny (and costly) story. My friend Stacey and I started a magazine. Midway through working on the first issue, we realized that we didn’t know a thing about publishing. So, we recruited a third co-founder. That magazine eventually failed but I was hooked. I started paying her to help me and when her life got too busy, I started paying other editors. Once I worked with one, I knew exactly what I was looking for so it’s been easy finding editors since. Without that experience, it would have been a lot of trial and error. For example, I can write very quickly. Because of this, I write far better when I work with an editor who really tears my work apart. If an editor sugar coats too much, draft+1 often ends up worse. But if they’re direct and try to hurt my feelings, draft+1 will be closer.
- abathur 4y ago
  What was your magazine about? This models a good amount of reflection and humility. It's hard to take a rough critique. At least when it comes to code, there's an ultimate ~deterministic oracle (and style concerns can be respected or dismissed). I vaguely thought I had a good bi-directional editor<->poet friendship during undergrad, but it fell apart over some personal issues. We've reconnected, but I ~lost my muse in the meantime. I've also wondered a little if it'd be worth trying to form something on the spectrum from a little editor dyad to a tetrad for technical blogging.
ghaff 4y ago
It really depends. A very good competent friend can help you. For technical, at least adjacent, articles there are online pubs who will work with you so long as the content is at least ok. But no one is going to edit a book for you for free and a publisher has at least a middling high bar to take you on.
- hluska 4y ago
  If you’re going with a friend, make sure they’re extremely good editors. I’ve become a good enough editor but still can’t do my friends’ writing justice. When I know people reasonably well, I understand how they communicate and find myself overlooking some grammatical quirks because I’m used to them. When I work with a near stranger, I can’t overlook anything - the piece either stands on its own or falls flat. I’m only good enough so your mileage will vary if you’re friends with extremely competent editors. But if you work with a friend and your writing doesn’t improve, you may be working with too good of a friend.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Oh I agree with that. I've seen people in tears after editors have finished with going through their work. You don't need to be nasty of course but you do need to be merciless.

bambax 4y ago

Very true, but it's not easy (or cheap) to find a good editor. There was a Launch HN recently on this very topic I believe. But, one can learn to be their own editor. It's not easy, it's unnatural, and it's not as good as an external editor, but it's better than nothing. The trick is to change the point of view, walk in the shoes of the reader.

Lutger 4y ago
Another trick is to wait. First write the post or email, then leave it alone for a while. This makes it easier to change the point of view. Somehow I also often find it easier to see possible improvements after I published something. I often edit when possible after posting. It is annoying, but it does have the some effect. Or if I write markdown, render it in some nice formatted view - that also helps to distance a bit.
Kye 4y ago
I think it's important for any writer to subject their work to an editor at least once in their lives. No amount of self-directed practice and learning is likely to beat what you find out about your writing by having a whole other brain take a critical look.
ayewo 4y ago
Foster had their Launch HN recently to provide on-demand editing https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31850439 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31850439