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> The purpose of the police is to threaten violence and to exercise violence Not arguing against your final point, but the purpose of the police is to enforce
by bicx 4y ago
> The purpose of the police is to threaten violence and to exercise violence
Not arguing against your final point, but the purpose of the police is to enforce the law, which does not ideally _have_ to involve violence or threat of violence. Sometimes it just means giving someone a traffic citation.
- arcbyte 4y agoWithout the threat of violence I'm not accepting a traffic violation.
- feet 4y agoNobody here will kink shame you
- jamiek88 4y agoWho’s gonna make me pay it? Ah. The judge. Backed up with jail. Who’s gonna put me in jail? I mean I’m 6’3 and 230lbs and a right arrogant asshole - I won’t go easy. Officers with guns you say? Okay! I’ll pay.
- bicx 4y agoI mean, it's your choice to make it violent. They should be able to counter _your_ threat of violence effectively, but violence is not the default way that someone gets taken to jail. Ultimately, the law is based on threat of punishment, which can come in many forms. For a lot of us here on HN, being violently thrown into a squad car is less threatening than having your career put into jeopardy by having a mark on your record.
- sneak 4y ago> I mean, it's your choice to make it violent. No, that's the lie that violent people tell. > but violence is not the default way that someone gets taken to jail. Most people do not go to jail willingly. It is always the threat of violence that gets them there. Let's not pretend.
- googlryas 4y agoThis must be a uniquely American viewpoint because most police across the world don't carry a gun.
- selectodude 4y agoI’ve seen far more semi-automatic rifles in the hands of police offers in Europe than I ever have in the US. Our front line police here might be over-armed but they have no issue with the application of state violence anywhere else in the world.
- googlryas 4y agoYou mean just strolling around town with a semiauto? Or are they at train stations and stadiums in case there is a terrorist attack? If you got pulled over for speeding in this country, would you expect a cop to come up to you with a semiauto?
- zdragnar 4y agoAlmost all pistols are semi automatic.
- samatman 4y agoThose are almost never semiauto, they're either submachine guns or full on assault rifles. The real ones with select fire. London, Brussels, Paris, Rome, Florence, yadda yadda. I don't know why Europeans don't see them, I've had this conversation dozens of times and they always go "oh. yeah. but that doesn't count!"
- zdragnar 4y ago"Assault rifle" is a marketing term, not a descriptive characteristic of a gun.
- samatman 4y agoIt is no such thing. An assault rifle is a select-fire rifle with an intermediate cartridge and detachable magazine. AR-15s are not this, since they aren't select-fire. You're thinking of "assault weapon", which is when a gun is scary and black.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- e-clinton 4y agoExcept you don’t need a heavily armed person to issue a citation. If you’re going to have people with the ability to inflict deadly force, only deploy them when deadly force may be required.
- samatman 4y agoTraffic stops can get pretty violent. When they do, it's almost always one of three reasons: possession of drugs or an illegal firearm, driving under the influence, or a standing bench warrant for their arrest. I can vaguely imagine a world where illegal firearms and drugs don't exist, just firearms and drugs. But warrants and DUI are going to remain, and you're proposing sending unarmed people to deal with that. Someone will run that experiment, the unarmed social worker trying to issue the citation will be badly hurt or murdered, and we'll go back to cops doing that job. Hopefully none of this will be in a county where I live, I don't want to be around vehicles operated with impunity by people who know they can just accelerate away.
- e-clinton 4y agoIt’s easy to imagine a world. Just look at Britain, New Zealand and others who already have unarmed officers deal with most things.
- sneak 4y ago> but the purpose of the police is to enforce the law, which does not ideally _have_ to involve violence or threat of violence Literally all law is fundamentally backed up with the threat of violence, there is no way around that philosophically. That's the difference between the rules of the state (which claims a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence) and the rules of a private person. Enforcing the law reduces to the (hopefully regulated) application of violence or threat of same. Otherwise you'd call your lawyer and not a guy with a badge and a gun.
- eesmith 4y agoThe U.S. flag code is a law which is not backed with the threat of violence. The Icelandic Commonwealth was effectively a stateless society, with laws but no state enforcement.