6 ms·

Ford Lightning Towing Test Shows Serious Problems

12 points by protomyth 4y ago

metadat 4y ago
> Another important problem with all-electric trucks, one we admittedly didn’t even think about, was exposed during this test. Charging one with a trailer hitched up isn’t exactly easy since most public chargers are set up in a regular parking stall. The Fast Lane Truck had to park the truck and trailer across multiple charging station spots to plug in the Ford Lightning.
ggm 4y ago
Towing is one of the main reasons people go for trucks with high torque. This is going to need better communication, around how the tow load and wind resistance affects distance computation. The good thing about battery estimation models is that they seem to adjust live. It would totally suck to have a battery life model which kept saying "you have 100k to go" when it's down to 20k or less. I know thats a tiny drop of good in a bitter pill of reality, but at least they got told the truth, once the load was applied. The EV supporting webs are all pretty good about highlighting the gap between the estimated range models used for certification, and 'real life' experience. I think they've realised over-stating it isn't helpful.
- legitster 4y ago
  There is supposed to be some sort of intelligence in the software of the Lightning which uses historical data for your tow loads to refine the range estimates. In one of the video reviews, they even showed that the car would let you plan a route and give you stopping points customized per load.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gamblor956 4y ago
The test was to see which had a longer range: the new GMC Sierra (24 gallon tank) or the Ford Lightning. But it wasn't a test of comparable vehicles. The Sierra has the EV equivalent of an 808 kWh battery vs 131 kwh in the Lightning. And the starting range of the GMC (when not towing) is theoretically more than double that of the Lighting. So the Lightning could never have won this test. Which, based on scrolling through the types of stories that website posts, was kind of the point.
- ars 4y ago
  Is a 800 kWh battery actually available for the Lightning? Or is that some conversion of gasoline into electrical energy? Because if not, then this is simply a real world comparison. Not some sort of physics demonstration.
  - metadat 4y ago
    The 2022 Lightning is all-electric.
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    It's a conversion of gasoline to battery capacity. But my point was that it's not a real world comparison, since they're comparing a full-size pickup truck against a compact pickup EV. The proper comparison would be to a compact pickup truck like the GMC Canyon. The ICE vehicle would still win, but but not by as much.
- pram 4y ago
  No one would buy an ICE truck that can only tow something 100 miles.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Most people who own a half ton truck never tow or leave pavement. The vehicles are garage/pavement queens.
    - MerelyMortal 4y ago
      Source for claim?
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz... > Truck owners might protest that they are slightly less likely than owners of other categories to use their vehicle as primary transport (83% vs. 95%), limiting the miles and gallons. And they might also protest that trucks provide capabilities that other vehicles lack. But, as it turns out, a significant portion of truck owners never use their trucks for these capabilities. According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. > So what do people actually like about trucks? According to Edwards, the answer is counterintuitive. Truck drivers use their trucks very much like other car owners: for commuting to and from work, presumably alone. The thing that most distinguishes truck owners from those of other vehicles is their sheer love of driving. “The highest indexed use among truck owners is pleasure driving,” says Edwards. Truck drivers use their vehicles this way fully twice as often as the industry average. “This is the freedom that trucks offer,” says Edwards. > “When asked for attributes that are important to them,” Edwards says, “truck owners oversample in ones like: the ability to outperform others, to look good while driving, to present a tough image, to have their car act as extension of their personality, and to stand out in a crowd.” Trucks deliver on all of that. At a price.
rektide 4y ago
reminder that epa rates a gallon as having 33.7 kWh. you'd need 876 kWh battery to have comparative net energy storage to the 26 gallon pickup compared against. even if we make allowances & say 1/3rd of that power is simply lost to inefficienct of combustion (gross), that's still 292 kWh of power. i keep thinking absolute figures inform & if any thing illuminate what wonderful efficiency we do get from electric vehicles.
- COGlory 4y ago
  How much power is regenerated though? Theoretically, electric vehicles shouldn't have to store quite as much energy.
legitster 4y ago
Honestly, this is actually pretty good. 100 miles towing a big old trailer? I'm assuming they gunned it on the freeway to make that range drop-off (they didn't post travel times, so I'll assume they gave it some beans). Given that towing was never a core capacity of the Lightning (Ford themselves probably wouldn't have even recommended the ICE version of this car without a towing package) this still works surprisingly well as "something to take my boat to the lake" vehicle.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  It is important for boaters to advocate for EV charging at the boat ramp parking, any location where the vehicle will dwell between towing ops really.
- rasz 4y ago
  >100 miles towing a big old trailer 100 miles towing a modern empty trailer
Kon-Peki 4y ago
The same Youtube channel also tested the Lightning against a Ram 2500 diesel going up and down I-70 at the Eisenhower Tunnel [1] while towing 9600 pounds and they were absolutely amazed at how well it did. It's an outstanding truck, but yes, the range is not great. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNQQsWK3wLg&t=25s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNQQsWK3wLg&t=25s

12 points by protomyth 4y ago

> Another important problem with all-electric trucks, one we admittedly didn’t even think about, was exposed during this test. Charging one with a trailer hitched up isn’t exactly easy since most public chargers are set up in a regular parking stall. The Fast Lane Truck had to park the truck and trailer across multiple charging station spots to plug in the Ford Lightning.

ggm 4y ago

Towing is one of the main reasons people go for trucks with high torque. This is going to need better communication, around how the tow load and wind resistance affects distance computation. The good thing about battery estimation models is that they seem to adjust live. It would totally suck to have a battery life model which kept saying "you have 100k to go" when it's down to 20k or less. I know thats a tiny drop of good in a bitter pill of reality, but at least they got told the truth, once the load was applied. The EV supporting webs are all pretty good about highlighting the gap between the estimated range models used for certification, and 'real life' experience. I think they've realised over-stating it isn't helpful.

legitster 4y ago
There is supposed to be some sort of intelligence in the software of the Lightning which uses historical data for your tow loads to refine the range estimates. In one of the video reviews, they even showed that the car would let you plan a route and give you stopping points customized per load.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

gamblor956 4y ago

The test was to see which had a longer range: the new GMC Sierra (24 gallon tank) or the Ford Lightning. But it wasn't a test of comparable vehicles. The Sierra has the EV equivalent of an 808 kWh battery vs 131 kwh in the Lightning. And the starting range of the GMC (when not towing) is theoretically more than double that of the Lighting. So the Lightning could never have won this test. Which, based on scrolling through the types of stories that website posts, was kind of the point.

ars 4y ago
Is a 800 kWh battery actually available for the Lightning? Or is that some conversion of gasoline into electrical energy? Because if not, then this is simply a real world comparison. Not some sort of physics demonstration.
- metadat 4y ago
  The 2022 Lightning is all-electric.
- gamblor956 4y ago
  It's a conversion of gasoline to battery capacity. But my point was that it's not a real world comparison, since they're comparing a full-size pickup truck against a compact pickup EV. The proper comparison would be to a compact pickup truck like the GMC Canyon. The ICE vehicle would still win, but but not by as much.
pram 4y ago
No one would buy an ICE truck that can only tow something 100 miles.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Most people who own a half ton truck never tow or leave pavement. The vehicles are garage/pavement queens.
  - MerelyMortal 4y ago
    Source for claim?
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz... > Truck owners might protest that they are slightly less likely than owners of other categories to use their vehicle as primary transport (83% vs. 95%), limiting the miles and gallons. And they might also protest that trucks provide capabilities that other vehicles lack. But, as it turns out, a significant portion of truck owners never use their trucks for these capabilities. According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. > So what do people actually like about trucks? According to Edwards, the answer is counterintuitive. Truck drivers use their trucks very much like other car owners: for commuting to and from work, presumably alone. The thing that most distinguishes truck owners from those of other vehicles is their sheer love of driving. “The highest indexed use among truck owners is pleasure driving,” says Edwards. Truck drivers use their vehicles this way fully twice as often as the industry average. “This is the freedom that trucks offer,” says Edwards. > “When asked for attributes that are important to them,” Edwards says, “truck owners oversample in ones like: the ability to outperform others, to look good while driving, to present a tough image, to have their car act as extension of their personality, and to stand out in a crowd.” Trucks deliver on all of that. At a price.

rektide 4y ago

reminder that epa rates a gallon as having 33.7 kWh. you'd need 876 kWh battery to have comparative net energy storage to the 26 gallon pickup compared against. even if we make allowances & say 1/3rd of that power is simply lost to inefficienct of combustion (gross), that's still 292 kWh of power. i keep thinking absolute figures inform & if any thing illuminate what wonderful efficiency we do get from electric vehicles.

COGlory 4y ago
How much power is regenerated though? Theoretically, electric vehicles shouldn't have to store quite as much energy.

legitster 4y ago

Honestly, this is actually pretty good. 100 miles towing a big old trailer? I'm assuming they gunned it on the freeway to make that range drop-off (they didn't post travel times, so I'll assume they gave it some beans). Given that towing was never a core capacity of the Lightning (Ford themselves probably wouldn't have even recommended the ICE version of this car without a towing package) this still works surprisingly well as "something to take my boat to the lake" vehicle.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
It is important for boaters to advocate for EV charging at the boat ramp parking, any location where the vehicle will dwell between towing ops really.
rasz 4y ago
>100 miles towing a big old trailer 100 miles towing a modern empty trailer

Kon-Peki 4y ago

The same Youtube channel also tested the Lightning against a Ram 2500 diesel going up and down I-70 at the Eisenhower Tunnel [1] while towing 9600 pounds and they were absolutely amazed at how well it did. It's an outstanding truck, but yes, the range is not great. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNQQsWK3wLg&t=25s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNQQsWK3wLg&t=25s