7 ms·

In many places they dispatch police and paramedics for a heart attack. The police officers are trained to provide CPR and have defibrillators in their cars, of

In many places they dispatch police and paramedics for a heart attack. The police officers are trained to provide CPR and have defibrillators in their cars, of course. (The reason they don't just dispatch paramedics because the police can often be there faster, either because they have more units or simply happen to be closer.)

giraffe_lady 4y ago
Yeah they might give you CPR and also maybe shoot your dog or check your family for warrants! Win/win right.
- Retric 4y ago
  There are real concerns about sending the police in such cases. However heart attacks can very quickly lead to death and should therefore be treated as an all hands on deck situation. When in low population areas an ambulance might be 30+ minutes away, sending the police could save a lot of lives.
  - e-clinton 4y ago
    Maybe we train them to leave to their weapons in the car unless told otherwise?
    - googlryas 4y ago
      That would never happen, because some non-zero number of people would lure police to their house to kill them.
      - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
        Why just police? A non-zero number of people have probably lured plumbers to their house to kill them. Should plumbers bring guns everywhere?
        sokoloff 4y ago
        When we get to the point where people are tagging and changing “All Plumbers are Bastards”, then yes, plumbers should carry when entering an unknown situation.
        Wowfunhappy 4y ago
        So, I do get it, but it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. People are chanting "all police are bastards" as a result of police carrying guns everywhere (and the downstream effects, like those guns occasionally shooting innocent people).
        sokoloff 4y ago
        It’s literally prejudice against cops. Some members of <group X> did <bad thing Y>. Therefore all members of <group X> are bad. We don’t tolerate when it group X is a racial group or when it’s a religious group, but otherwise intelligent and reasonable people seem to give zero care when group X is cops. It’s weird to me.
        Retric 4y ago
        By that logic people shouln’t be judged for Al-Qaeda membership. There is a meaningful difference between groups people join voluntarily and those people are born into.
        decremental 4y ago
        They're just ideologically possessed and brainwashed. You give them too much credit.
        giraffe_lady 4y ago
        > but otherwise intelligent and reasonable people seem to give zero care when group X is cops You might want to wonder then if those intelligent and reasonable people might have knowledge or experiences they're basing these things off of that you don't have direct access to. It's not prejudice if it's not pre. For me I didn't come to truly hate all police until I had accumulated years of experience of their violence and dishonesty across so many different jurisdictions and even countries that I realized it really is a problem with the system itself rather than any specific individual within it. ACAB doesn't mean only bad people become police, it means you must become bad to remain police. Well-meaning people join all the time and they either leave, are forced out, or get in line and start covering for the really heinous shit.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- jakear 4y ago
  It’s interesting the extent to which police varies geographically. I’d love for any police officer of Oregon to be at my side in times of trouble, but god forbid any King country officer show up when I’m in need. I’d wager any “blue lives matter” folks would change their mind when presented with urban officers, and on the flip side all “ACAB” people would flip when dealing with rural enforcement.
  - feet 4y ago
    >flip side all “ACAB” people would flip when dealing with rural enforcement Unless they have brown skin In many areas getting pulled over for DWB is a real phenomenon
    - jakear 4y ago
      Have you actual first hand experience of that or are you just propagating the predominant online rhetoric?
      - feet 4y ago
        I'm propagating the first hand experiences that have been personally shared with me
        jakear 4y ago
        Ah yes, hearsay. Got it.
        feet 4y ago
        Ah yes, it didn't happen to you so it never happens right?
        jakear 4y ago
        Every input must be scaled by one’s certainty the source is portraying an accurate and honest representation of the underlying facts (if you don’t perform such scaling I have no interest in your arguments). Before you made the above comment, I had my default small but nonzero belief you were portraying your experience accurately and the same for your source. Thus, multiplied together, the information carried little (but still nonzero!) weight. This isn’t me being difficult, it’s quite literally the at the core of any reasonable legal system. After you made this comment, willfully and egregiously misrepresenting what I said for the sake of… I don’t know what… I hold zero belief that you accurately and honestly represent underlying facts in arguments — meaning this thread has reached its natural conclusion. Cheers, have a good day.
kibwen 4y ago
The idea of doubling up like that to increase coverage may be well-intentioned, but it's complicated specifically with regard to the police. If, say, you train firefighters to pull double-duty like that, then nobody's going to object; as the saying goes, nobody ever wrote a song called "fuck the fire department". For several demographics, the police do not inspire reassurance but instead inspire terror, and the prospect of the police showing up for a medical emergency can dissuade people from calling for help, potentially making health outcomes worse rather than better.
- bombcar 4y ago
  There are many areas in the US where the fire department or paramedics will not go without a police escort, because they've been attacked too often when trying to render aid.
  - kibwen 4y ago
    That's an entirely separate concern. By all means, if paramedics don't feel safe going somewhere, then give them police escorts. The point is not to say "the police cannot come", it's to say "the police should not come unless someone asks for the police".
- googlryas 4y ago
  The saying is silly, because there have been a number of instances where firemen are attacked or ambushed.
  - JshWright 4y ago
    Firefighter/paramedic here. These are definitely outlier events. It's not zero risk, but it's close enough to zero to not worry about. That isn't to say violence against Fire/EMS isn't an issue, but the idea that we need cops on every call just in case it's an ambush is silly. One of my first priorities on a scene where there are cops present is to clear the cops as quickly as possible. Nine times out of ten if a cop is going to get involved in something, they're going to escalate things, not cool them down.

giraffe_lady 4y ago

Yeah they might give you CPR and also maybe shoot your dog or check your family for warrants! Win/win right.

Retric 4y ago
There are real concerns about sending the police in such cases. However heart attacks can very quickly lead to death and should therefore be treated as an all hands on deck situation. When in low population areas an ambulance might be 30+ minutes away, sending the police could save a lot of lives.
- e-clinton 4y ago
  Maybe we train them to leave to their weapons in the car unless told otherwise?
  - googlryas 4y ago
    That would never happen, because some non-zero number of people would lure police to their house to kill them.
    - Wowfunhappy 4y ago
      Why just police? A non-zero number of people have probably lured plumbers to their house to kill them. Should plumbers bring guns everywhere?
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        When we get to the point where people are tagging and changing “All Plumbers are Bastards”, then yes, plumbers should carry when entering an unknown situation.
        Wowfunhappy 4y ago
        So, I do get it, but it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. People are chanting "all police are bastards" as a result of police carrying guns everywhere (and the downstream effects, like those guns occasionally shooting innocent people).
        sokoloff 4y ago
        It’s literally prejudice against cops. Some members of <group X> did <bad thing Y>. Therefore all members of <group X> are bad. We don’t tolerate when it group X is a racial group or when it’s a religious group, but otherwise intelligent and reasonable people seem to give zero care when group X is cops. It’s weird to me.
        Retric 4y ago
        By that logic people shouln’t be judged for Al-Qaeda membership. There is a meaningful difference between groups people join voluntarily and those people are born into.
        decremental 4y ago
        They're just ideologically possessed and brainwashed. You give them too much credit.
        giraffe_lady 4y ago
        > but otherwise intelligent and reasonable people seem to give zero care when group X is cops You might want to wonder then if those intelligent and reasonable people might have knowledge or experiences they're basing these things off of that you don't have direct access to. It's not prejudice if it's not pre. For me I didn't come to truly hate all police until I had accumulated years of experience of their violence and dishonesty across so many different jurisdictions and even countries that I realized it really is a problem with the system itself rather than any specific individual within it. ACAB doesn't mean only bad people become police, it means you must become bad to remain police. Well-meaning people join all the time and they either leave, are forced out, or get in line and start covering for the really heinous shit.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
jakear 4y ago
It’s interesting the extent to which police varies geographically. I’d love for any police officer of Oregon to be at my side in times of trouble, but god forbid any King country officer show up when I’m in need. I’d wager any “blue lives matter” folks would change their mind when presented with urban officers, and on the flip side all “ACAB” people would flip when dealing with rural enforcement.
- feet 4y ago
  >flip side all “ACAB” people would flip when dealing with rural enforcement Unless they have brown skin In many areas getting pulled over for DWB is a real phenomenon
  - jakear 4y ago
    Have you actual first hand experience of that or are you just propagating the predominant online rhetoric?
    - feet 4y ago
      I'm propagating the first hand experiences that have been personally shared with me
      - jakear 4y ago
        Ah yes, hearsay. Got it.
        feet 4y ago
        Ah yes, it didn't happen to you so it never happens right?
        jakear 4y ago
        Every input must be scaled by one’s certainty the source is portraying an accurate and honest representation of the underlying facts (if you don’t perform such scaling I have no interest in your arguments). Before you made the above comment, I had my default small but nonzero belief you were portraying your experience accurately and the same for your source. Thus, multiplied together, the information carried little (but still nonzero!) weight. This isn’t me being difficult, it’s quite literally the at the core of any reasonable legal system. After you made this comment, willfully and egregiously misrepresenting what I said for the sake of… I don’t know what… I hold zero belief that you accurately and honestly represent underlying facts in arguments — meaning this thread has reached its natural conclusion. Cheers, have a good day.

kibwen 4y ago

The idea of doubling up like that to increase coverage may be well-intentioned, but it's complicated specifically with regard to the police. If, say, you train firefighters to pull double-duty like that, then nobody's going to object; as the saying goes, nobody ever wrote a song called "fuck the fire department". For several demographics, the police do not inspire reassurance but instead inspire terror, and the prospect of the police showing up for a medical emergency can dissuade people from calling for help, potentially making health outcomes worse rather than better.

bombcar 4y ago
There are many areas in the US where the fire department or paramedics will not go without a police escort, because they've been attacked too often when trying to render aid.
- kibwen 4y ago
  That's an entirely separate concern. By all means, if paramedics don't feel safe going somewhere, then give them police escorts. The point is not to say "the police cannot come", it's to say "the police should not come unless someone asks for the police".
googlryas 4y ago
The saying is silly, because there have been a number of instances where firemen are attacked or ambushed.
- JshWright 4y ago
  Firefighter/paramedic here. These are definitely outlier events. It's not zero risk, but it's close enough to zero to not worry about. That isn't to say violence against Fire/EMS isn't an issue, but the idea that we need cops on every call just in case it's an ambush is silly. One of my first priorities on a scene where there are cops present is to clear the cops as quickly as possible. Nine times out of ten if a cop is going to get involved in something, they're going to escalate things, not cool them down.