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Clearly you’ve not being paying attention when they went to execute every politician and takeover Kiev?

pydry 4y ago
They made a it crystal clear what it would have taken to prevent that and what they demanded wasnt even all that unreasonable - respect minsk 2 - something they already agreed to, dont join the NATO gang and cede crimea. All 3 were rejected. The west refused to even accept the result of a landslide referendum whose veracity was confirmed by our own polls. It's a good thing respect for democracy isnt a cornerstone of what we stand for coz one of those three demands was just "respect a democratic vote". Imagine the optics of pensioners dying of cold in the German winter because the Americans rejected democracy.
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  Russia doesn't get to conquer territory and demand the ceding of other countries territories to them. Russia needs to be dismantled military and ideally should be denuclearised they have proven they cannot play at the table with adults. This is a rough war for everyone, but its a war that unfortunately needs to happen, Russia must have a decisive defeat or they will continue behaving how they have been for years now which is bad for the entire world.
  - pydry 4y ago
    What you refer to as the adults is a vicious empire that imprisons its journalists, supports brutal dictatorships and topples democratically elected governments and invades on a whim committing war crimes. This is our gang - the "good guys", who just so happen to mimic Russia's worst excesses when push comes to shove. Now our gang is fighting a proxy war with another nuclear gang because we cant deal with the result of a democratic vote to join Russia in a place that speaks exclusively Russian. And we're being asked to freeze to death out of sympathy.
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      Im not sure theres any evidence that the 'good guys' you seem very keen to compare to the Russians, raped and killed children, mass looted everywhere they went and deported or executed everyone over a certain age in regions. The Russians aren't soldiers like the west expects. Im sure your opinion would be different if it was your friends and family be executed and raped.
      - pydry 4y ago
        This is all pretty routine in most wars. E.g. for every action taken by Russia in Ukraine we have condemned with fervor (e.g. "bombing a hospital") western media have tried to justify the same behavior in Israel ("but there were militants there!"). In Yemen we dont even really try to justify the war crimes we just ignore them and keep sending weapons in Saudi's war of aggression. The war crimes committed by Azov since 2014 we are equally indifferent to because hey, it's Russia and those Nazis are good fighters. This war is purely a clash of empires. NATO are happy to discard all of the principles we purport to represent AND sacrifice the wellbeing of all Europeans even if all we do is give Russia a black eye.
        _kbh_ 4y ago
        Mass rapes are not 'routine' for most wars. Its an atrocity that is being committed by Russia against Ukraine. Just like how it was an atrocity when other countries mass rapped people. This war is purely Russias, it is a war of aggression designed to wipe out a cultural, a people, its genocide. That Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine is unsurprising they already did this before during the USSR with the holodomor. Russia is solely responsible for this war. It's lucky that a lot of Europe is happy to sacrifice both its weapons and some of its economy to stop the authoritarian beast just like they did in WW2.
        pydry 4y ago
        Are you refering specifically to Lyudmila Denisova's rape accusations? They were pretty serious, yeah. Genocide has quite a high bar. Biden's opinion is currently that what Russia is doing doesnt meet it.
  - argentier 4y ago
    And which 'adults' are going to do the dismantling? I'll wait. This kind of aggressive know-nothing 'naivety on the warpath' is all too common at the moment. It might get us all killed.
- dodgerdan 4y ago
  Not even going to try engagement with you, your replies either lack any sort of critical analysis of the facts or you’re acting in bad faith. Putin has lied since day 1. His words betrayed his motives and the facts about his actions are clear to everyone. Russia under Putin is a terrorist state. And the sooner the west fully isolates them fully the better.

They made a it crystal clear what it would have taken to prevent that and what they demanded wasnt even all that unreasonable - respect minsk 2 - something they already agreed to, dont join the NATO gang and cede crimea. All 3 were rejected. The west refused to even accept the result of a landslide referendum whose veracity was confirmed by our own polls. It's a good thing respect for democracy isnt a cornerstone of what we stand for coz one of those three demands was just "respect a democratic vote". Imagine the optics of pensioners dying of cold in the German winter because the Americans rejected democracy.

_kbh_ 4y ago
Russia doesn't get to conquer territory and demand the ceding of other countries territories to them. Russia needs to be dismantled military and ideally should be denuclearised they have proven they cannot play at the table with adults. This is a rough war for everyone, but its a war that unfortunately needs to happen, Russia must have a decisive defeat or they will continue behaving how they have been for years now which is bad for the entire world.
- pydry 4y ago
  What you refer to as the adults is a vicious empire that imprisons its journalists, supports brutal dictatorships and topples democratically elected governments and invades on a whim committing war crimes. This is our gang - the "good guys", who just so happen to mimic Russia's worst excesses when push comes to shove. Now our gang is fighting a proxy war with another nuclear gang because we cant deal with the result of a democratic vote to join Russia in a place that speaks exclusively Russian. And we're being asked to freeze to death out of sympathy.
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    Im not sure theres any evidence that the 'good guys' you seem very keen to compare to the Russians, raped and killed children, mass looted everywhere they went and deported or executed everyone over a certain age in regions. The Russians aren't soldiers like the west expects. Im sure your opinion would be different if it was your friends and family be executed and raped.
    - pydry 4y ago
      This is all pretty routine in most wars. E.g. for every action taken by Russia in Ukraine we have condemned with fervor (e.g. "bombing a hospital") western media have tried to justify the same behavior in Israel ("but there were militants there!"). In Yemen we dont even really try to justify the war crimes we just ignore them and keep sending weapons in Saudi's war of aggression. The war crimes committed by Azov since 2014 we are equally indifferent to because hey, it's Russia and those Nazis are good fighters. This war is purely a clash of empires. NATO are happy to discard all of the principles we purport to represent AND sacrifice the wellbeing of all Europeans even if all we do is give Russia a black eye.
      - _kbh_ 4y ago
        Mass rapes are not 'routine' for most wars. Its an atrocity that is being committed by Russia against Ukraine. Just like how it was an atrocity when other countries mass rapped people. This war is purely Russias, it is a war of aggression designed to wipe out a cultural, a people, its genocide. That Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine is unsurprising they already did this before during the USSR with the holodomor. Russia is solely responsible for this war. It's lucky that a lot of Europe is happy to sacrifice both its weapons and some of its economy to stop the authoritarian beast just like they did in WW2.
        pydry 4y ago
        Are you refering specifically to Lyudmila Denisova's rape accusations? They were pretty serious, yeah. Genocide has quite a high bar. Biden's opinion is currently that what Russia is doing doesnt meet it.
- argentier 4y ago
  And which 'adults' are going to do the dismantling? I'll wait. This kind of aggressive know-nothing 'naivety on the warpath' is all too common at the moment. It might get us all killed.
dodgerdan 4y ago
Not even going to try engagement with you, your replies either lack any sort of critical analysis of the facts or you’re acting in bad faith. Putin has lied since day 1. His words betrayed his motives and the facts about his actions are clear to everyone. Russia under Putin is a terrorist state. And the sooner the west fully isolates them fully the better.