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The West/NATO are reluctant to force Ukraine to make a settlement. They've been very clear that it's up to the Ukrainians. That could change closer to winter an

The West/NATO are reluctant to force Ukraine to make a settlement. They've been very clear that it's up to the Ukrainians. That could change closer to winter and it seems Zelensky is aware of that. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/28/zelensky-maybe-tells-biden-he-wants-war-over-by-winter/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/28/zelensky-...

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beebmam 4y ago
Why should anyone settle with a robber? We should be destroying the lives of criminals like this, not settling
- HWR_14 4y ago
  The better example is that Russia was robbing a bank and now has hostages (I think I've seen many movies about it). Why negotiate even though they're wrong? Because they can shoot a hostage (nuke something). Their nukes don't mean that you let them do whatever they want. But it means that you have to take limited actions that keep the warfare conventional. And sometimes that means settling with them. Heck, finding something that Putin can claim is a victory is probably important if you want the war to end. It doesn't matter if it's real, and it may not matter if he thinks it's something he won. It certainly matters that he can tell the Russian people that the cost they bore to "denazify" Ukraine worked. Otherwise, he failed and that way lies bad consequences for dictators.
- iakov 4y ago
  Oh I don't know, EU leadership and officials were more than happy to settle with with a dictator who annexed foreign land, crushed dissent and assassinated political rivals both domestically and on foreign soil. They were happy to sell him weapons. Hell they invited the bastard to dance on their weddings. It really is a good question why has the world leaders have settled with a person like that in charge of a nuclear power. I wonder if cheap energy had something to do with that.
kergonath 4y ago
A settlement will only be a license for Russia to do the same thing again in a couple of years’ time. It’s not even the third time they do this in the last 20 years. This has no easy solution, but pressuring Ukraine to give up its land would be particularly bad.
- nivenkos 4y ago
  Do the same how? Putin's demands were clear at the start of the war - cede Crimea to Russia, and let Donetsk and Luhansk become independent: https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-will-stop-moment-if-ukraine-meets-2022-03-07/ https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-says-russian-military-... The majority of those territories were already occupied for the last 8 years, it would have been better to negotiate that at the start.
  - dodgerdan 4y ago
    Clearly you’ve not being paying attention when they went to execute every politician and takeover Kiev?
    - pydry 4y ago
      They made a it crystal clear what it would have taken to prevent that and what they demanded wasnt even all that unreasonable - respect minsk 2 - something they already agreed to, dont join the NATO gang and cede crimea. All 3 were rejected. The west refused to even accept the result of a landslide referendum whose veracity was confirmed by our own polls. It's a good thing respect for democracy isnt a cornerstone of what we stand for coz one of those three demands was just "respect a democratic vote". Imagine the optics of pensioners dying of cold in the German winter because the Americans rejected democracy.
      - _kbh_ 4y ago
        Russia doesn't get to conquer territory and demand the ceding of other countries territories to them. Russia needs to be dismantled military and ideally should be denuclearised they have proven they cannot play at the table with adults. This is a rough war for everyone, but its a war that unfortunately needs to happen, Russia must have a decisive defeat or they will continue behaving how they have been for years now which is bad for the entire world.

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beebmam 4y ago

Why should anyone settle with a robber? We should be destroying the lives of criminals like this, not settling

HWR_14 4y ago
The better example is that Russia was robbing a bank and now has hostages (I think I've seen many movies about it). Why negotiate even though they're wrong? Because they can shoot a hostage (nuke something). Their nukes don't mean that you let them do whatever they want. But it means that you have to take limited actions that keep the warfare conventional. And sometimes that means settling with them. Heck, finding something that Putin can claim is a victory is probably important if you want the war to end. It doesn't matter if it's real, and it may not matter if he thinks it's something he won. It certainly matters that he can tell the Russian people that the cost they bore to "denazify" Ukraine worked. Otherwise, he failed and that way lies bad consequences for dictators.
iakov 4y ago
Oh I don't know, EU leadership and officials were more than happy to settle with with a dictator who annexed foreign land, crushed dissent and assassinated political rivals both domestically and on foreign soil. They were happy to sell him weapons. Hell they invited the bastard to dance on their weddings. It really is a good question why has the world leaders have settled with a person like that in charge of a nuclear power. I wonder if cheap energy had something to do with that.

kergonath 4y ago

A settlement will only be a license for Russia to do the same thing again in a couple of years’ time. It’s not even the third time they do this in the last 20 years. This has no easy solution, but pressuring Ukraine to give up its land would be particularly bad.

nivenkos 4y ago
Do the same how? Putin's demands were clear at the start of the war - cede Crimea to Russia, and let Donetsk and Luhansk become independent: https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-will-stop-moment-if-ukraine-meets-2022-03-07/ https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-says-russian-military-... The majority of those territories were already occupied for the last 8 years, it would have been better to negotiate that at the start.
- dodgerdan 4y ago
  Clearly you’ve not being paying attention when they went to execute every politician and takeover Kiev?
  - pydry 4y ago
    They made a it crystal clear what it would have taken to prevent that and what they demanded wasnt even all that unreasonable - respect minsk 2 - something they already agreed to, dont join the NATO gang and cede crimea. All 3 were rejected. The west refused to even accept the result of a landslide referendum whose veracity was confirmed by our own polls. It's a good thing respect for democracy isnt a cornerstone of what we stand for coz one of those three demands was just "respect a democratic vote". Imagine the optics of pensioners dying of cold in the German winter because the Americans rejected democracy.
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      Russia doesn't get to conquer territory and demand the ceding of other countries territories to them. Russia needs to be dismantled military and ideally should be denuclearised they have proven they cannot play at the table with adults. This is a rough war for everyone, but its a war that unfortunately needs to happen, Russia must have a decisive defeat or they will continue behaving how they have been for years now which is bad for the entire world.