4 ms·

The video game prescribed by doctors to treat ADHD

27 points by pmoriarty 4y ago

TrinaryWorksToo 4y ago
Demo available here: https://www.hcpendeavorrx.com/ https://www.hcpendeavorrx.com/
dt2m 4y ago
“Treat” is the wrong operative word here. There is no cure or treatment for ADHD, but there are definitely non-pharmaceutical strategies, which combined with education and therapy, can help mitigate symptoms. I’m sure the app works great to help educate children with focus issues in school, but it’s very unlikely it will do anything to help with the remaining executive dysfunction problems which will become very apparent once they reach adulthood.
- Pulcinella 4y ago
  Is there some reason you don’t consider methylphenidate, dextroamphetamine, etc. to be treatments?
  - dt2m 4y ago
    Never said I don’t consider them treatments, I absolutely do and feel like they’re the most effective solution. Only talking about non-drug solutions as the article specifically mentions it as an alternative to medicine. Having said that, it is foolish to believe you can take drugs which are analogous to speed and believe there won’t be any side effects. Whether or not these side effects are worth it will be up to the individual.
    - birdyrooster 4y ago
      There really aren't any side effects for me, but YMMV.
      - bobkazamakis 4y ago
        there were plenty of side effects for me, but YMMV
- thecassandrist 4y ago
  It’s a treatment, ADHD has several pharmas it also uses to treat the condition, and counselling and other therapies. To treat is the correct word.
  - dt2m 4y ago
    Right, I might have been misconstruing the usage of the word. I’m just very sad of the quite common belief amongst neurotypical people that ADHD can be “cured” or treated with these “one simple trick” type of solutions. Especially as the article in question only considers treatment of focus issues, when ADHD in actuality presents itself as a broad spectrum of difficulties that reach far deeper than simple focus issues in school.
    - e-clinton 4y ago
      > quite common belief amongst neurotypical people that ADHD can be “cured” What a strange comment. Quite common? And do ONLY neurotypicals have that belief? Would love to see the sample size informing this opinion.
ebb_earl_co 4y ago
I first heard about this when Sam Harris interviewed Adam Gazzaley[0] who is a co-founder of the company producing this game. I was thoroughly impressed by him, especially because of how novel this treatment idea is. 0: https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/226-price-distraction https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/226...
quacked 4y ago
Speaking as someone who could be diagnosed for ADHD in ten seconds if I wanted to (my father has a diagnosis and is on medication for it, and I meet most of the symptoms questionnaire) I'm not sure I believe ADHD "exists". I concede that I am much worse at time management, focus, follow-through, etc. than the average population, but I see myself on the left side of a bell curve, not as a person with a "disorder". Surely if we were measuring against the "average person", we'd be able to "diagnose" people with ASRB (Attention Surplus Regularactivity Bonus) and talk endlessly about how they're privileged in white collar fields that require a lot of drive and focus. For example, I was very bad at studying, most of my friends were fine at studying, and a few people I know could effortlessly balance their social life with 6-10 hours of straight studying per day. They're not normal... they have ASRB! Furthermore, there isn't any "pathology" that we know of that guarantees ADHD. You can diagnose scoliosis by looking at the spine, or COVID-19 by testing for its presence, but there is no associated brain or tissue pathology that shows "aha, you have ADHD!" I think you could arrange all humans on an "ADHD Spectrum". The 99th percentile would obviously have severe emotional regulation and focus issues, the 60th percentile would have minor issues, and the 1st percentile would be hyper-focus geniuses who outwork their competition and land high-paying, high-status jobs in competitive industries. Furthermore, in more "natural" environments, "ADHD" doesn't really show up. I wasn't that noticeably different on the soccer field or working in the community garden over the summer, but with 7 classes worth of work piled on me over a semester it showed up in blazing letters.
- wahern 4y ago
  > Surely if we were measuring against the "average person", we'd be able to "diagnose" people with ASRB (Attention Surplus Regularactivity Bonus) and talk endlessly about how they're privileged in white collar fields that require a lot of drive and focus. Isn't that "Type-A", a personality type literally devised for diagnostic purposes. (TIL via Wikipedia, devised by cardiologists, who hypothesized that such people were more prone to stress-related cardiovascular disease.)
- ojkelly 4y ago
  Your comment feels like it’s well intentioned, but questioning if ADHD exists (it does) perpetuates a myth that has harmful impacts on people. ADHD in my opinion is one of the worst named disorders. It’s name and the previous lack of accessible information about it, contributed to me not getting diagnosed for a decade after I first seriously though I may have it. You’re right that for a lot of the symptoms everyone could at some stage of their life fall along a spectrum. The key diagnostic criteria is that it’s been present since childhood and causes significant disruption to you life. If you can get by without medication that’s great. It’s also not a universal experience. I agree having a more defined pathology would be incredible, but there’s millions of us who report a similar enough set of symptoms which are greatly improved with medication that you can refute the existence of something there. > Furthermore, in more "natural" environments, "ADHD" doesn't really show up. I wasn't that noticeably different on the soccer field or working in the community garden over the summer, but with 7 classes worth of work piled on me over a semester it showed up in blazing letters. You may be surprised by how many people with ADHD find meaningful careers working outside. Two of the best non medical supports for an ADHD brain is exercise and sleep. Its generally accepted that in an ADHD brain some neurotransmitters like dopamine are retaken by the brain before it’s done with them, resulting in significantly lower levels of dopamine and other neurotransmitters in the brain. Exercise releases a lot of dopamine, and has a noticeable effect. Combine that with something interesting like a soccer game, and I’d be surprised if someone with ADHD wasn’t giving it everything. The first time people take medication some people experience a dramatic improvement, others it’s much more subtle initially. For me, within 40 minutes it was like my brain had put on glasses. My perpetual brain fog disappeared, so fast I was lost for words for a few hours as I came to grips with what most people felt as “normal”. How do I know that was normal, while before wasn’t? It’s a bit hard to explain, but imagine sitting in a stuffy room for 30 years and then getting fresh air.
ALittleLight 4y ago
It seems crazy to me that someone would develop a game that can potentially improve cognitive function and they would gate it behind a prescription. I assume this is basically a marketing gimmick and/or a way to prevent outsiders from studying it. I have a strong prior that this wouldn't work, or wouldn't work well, and the fact they are intentionally minimizing their audience updates my belief in the "this doesn't really work" direction.

27 points by pmoriarty 4y ago

Demo available here: https://www.hcpendeavorrx.com/ https://www.hcpendeavorrx.com/

dt2m 4y ago

“Treat” is the wrong operative word here. There is no cure or treatment for ADHD, but there are definitely non-pharmaceutical strategies, which combined with education and therapy, can help mitigate symptoms. I’m sure the app works great to help educate children with focus issues in school, but it’s very unlikely it will do anything to help with the remaining executive dysfunction problems which will become very apparent once they reach adulthood.

Pulcinella 4y ago
Is there some reason you don’t consider methylphenidate, dextroamphetamine, etc. to be treatments?
- dt2m 4y ago
  Never said I don’t consider them treatments, I absolutely do and feel like they’re the most effective solution. Only talking about non-drug solutions as the article specifically mentions it as an alternative to medicine. Having said that, it is foolish to believe you can take drugs which are analogous to speed and believe there won’t be any side effects. Whether or not these side effects are worth it will be up to the individual.
  - birdyrooster 4y ago
    There really aren't any side effects for me, but YMMV.
    - bobkazamakis 4y ago
      there were plenty of side effects for me, but YMMV
thecassandrist 4y ago
It’s a treatment, ADHD has several pharmas it also uses to treat the condition, and counselling and other therapies. To treat is the correct word.
- dt2m 4y ago
  Right, I might have been misconstruing the usage of the word. I’m just very sad of the quite common belief amongst neurotypical people that ADHD can be “cured” or treated with these “one simple trick” type of solutions. Especially as the article in question only considers treatment of focus issues, when ADHD in actuality presents itself as a broad spectrum of difficulties that reach far deeper than simple focus issues in school.
  - e-clinton 4y ago
    > quite common belief amongst neurotypical people that ADHD can be “cured” What a strange comment. Quite common? And do ONLY neurotypicals have that belief? Would love to see the sample size informing this opinion.

ebb_earl_co 4y ago

I first heard about this when Sam Harris interviewed Adam Gazzaley[0] who is a co-founder of the company producing this game. I was thoroughly impressed by him, especially because of how novel this treatment idea is. 0: https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/226-price-distraction https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/226...

quacked 4y ago

Speaking as someone who could be diagnosed for ADHD in ten seconds if I wanted to (my father has a diagnosis and is on medication for it, and I meet most of the symptoms questionnaire) I'm not sure I believe ADHD "exists". I concede that I am much worse at time management, focus, follow-through, etc. than the average population, but I see myself on the left side of a bell curve, not as a person with a "disorder". Surely if we were measuring against the "average person", we'd be able to "diagnose" people with ASRB (Attention Surplus Regularactivity Bonus) and talk endlessly about how they're privileged in white collar fields that require a lot of drive and focus. For example, I was very bad at studying, most of my friends were fine at studying, and a few people I know could effortlessly balance their social life with 6-10 hours of straight studying per day. They're not normal... they have ASRB! Furthermore, there isn't any "pathology" that we know of that guarantees ADHD. You can diagnose scoliosis by looking at the spine, or COVID-19 by testing for its presence, but there is no associated brain or tissue pathology that shows "aha, you have ADHD!" I think you could arrange all humans on an "ADHD Spectrum". The 99th percentile would obviously have severe emotional regulation and focus issues, the 60th percentile would have minor issues, and the 1st percentile would be hyper-focus geniuses who outwork their competition and land high-paying, high-status jobs in competitive industries. Furthermore, in more "natural" environments, "ADHD" doesn't really show up. I wasn't that noticeably different on the soccer field or working in the community garden over the summer, but with 7 classes worth of work piled on me over a semester it showed up in blazing letters.

wahern 4y ago
> Surely if we were measuring against the "average person", we'd be able to "diagnose" people with ASRB (Attention Surplus Regularactivity Bonus) and talk endlessly about how they're privileged in white collar fields that require a lot of drive and focus. Isn't that "Type-A", a personality type literally devised for diagnostic purposes. (TIL via Wikipedia, devised by cardiologists, who hypothesized that such people were more prone to stress-related cardiovascular disease.)
ojkelly 4y ago
Your comment feels like it’s well intentioned, but questioning if ADHD exists (it does) perpetuates a myth that has harmful impacts on people. ADHD in my opinion is one of the worst named disorders. It’s name and the previous lack of accessible information about it, contributed to me not getting diagnosed for a decade after I first seriously though I may have it. You’re right that for a lot of the symptoms everyone could at some stage of their life fall along a spectrum. The key diagnostic criteria is that it’s been present since childhood and causes significant disruption to you life. If you can get by without medication that’s great. It’s also not a universal experience. I agree having a more defined pathology would be incredible, but there’s millions of us who report a similar enough set of symptoms which are greatly improved with medication that you can refute the existence of something there. > Furthermore, in more "natural" environments, "ADHD" doesn't really show up. I wasn't that noticeably different on the soccer field or working in the community garden over the summer, but with 7 classes worth of work piled on me over a semester it showed up in blazing letters. You may be surprised by how many people with ADHD find meaningful careers working outside. Two of the best non medical supports for an ADHD brain is exercise and sleep. Its generally accepted that in an ADHD brain some neurotransmitters like dopamine are retaken by the brain before it’s done with them, resulting in significantly lower levels of dopamine and other neurotransmitters in the brain. Exercise releases a lot of dopamine, and has a noticeable effect. Combine that with something interesting like a soccer game, and I’d be surprised if someone with ADHD wasn’t giving it everything. The first time people take medication some people experience a dramatic improvement, others it’s much more subtle initially. For me, within 40 minutes it was like my brain had put on glasses. My perpetual brain fog disappeared, so fast I was lost for words for a few hours as I came to grips with what most people felt as “normal”. How do I know that was normal, while before wasn’t? It’s a bit hard to explain, but imagine sitting in a stuffy room for 30 years and then getting fresh air.

ALittleLight 4y ago

It seems crazy to me that someone would develop a game that can potentially improve cognitive function and they would gate it behind a prescription. I assume this is basically a marketing gimmick and/or a way to prevent outsiders from studying it. I have a strong prior that this wouldn't work, or wouldn't work well, and the fact they are intentionally minimizing their audience updates my belief in the "this doesn't really work" direction.