4 ms·

I am curious if this is correct: The EU has a population roughly of similar size to that of the US, and the EU had (when it included the UK) an economy roughly

I am curious if this is correct: The EU has a population roughly of similar size to that of the US, and the EU had (when it included the UK) an economy roughly the size of the US in terms of GDP (https://www.thebalance.com/world-s-largest-economy-3306044 https://www.thebalance.com/world-s-largest-economy-3306044). Is that right? (I just looked this up via Google) Also, Discussion of Europe's lack of mega companies / weakness is often a theme here, and there are many fair points to be made about its lack of entrepreneur culture and unfriendliness to business. But I'd like to point out that it's worth to think about more than just economies in comparing the EU to the rest of the world. So let me mention a couple of other things worth noting: Stuff like GDPR or the currently-in-the-works AI act (not to mention all the other rights and wellfare benefits common in much of the EU) don't help the EU's economy but do benefit its citizens in many ways (as far as I am aware). A bunch of countries in the EU (looks like about 12) has a happiness index score higher or the same as the US (https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/happiness/Europe/ https://www.theglobaleconomy.com/rankings/happiness/Europe/). Many of its countries also have higher life expectancy (https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/ https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/).

hef19898 4y ago
Regarding those "mega-corps", Europe has quite a few of those as well. Food, aerospace, automotive, machinery, pharma, chemicals...
- partiallypro 4y ago
  Most of them are German. Automotive is a huge global driver and Germany has 3 of the top 10 companies; it's just a fact.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Sanofi, Nestle, Airbus, Stellantis are not. And those are just the ones I come up woth from top of my head. Germany's strength are actually mid sozed comoanies ezcellong it what they do. And the big obes, is it really a surprise that the biggest EU economy actually has a fair share mega corps?
    - partiallypro 4y ago
      Airbus is a consortium created to compete with US companies. Nestle is Swiss and isn't in the EU, which is what we're discussing.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        Ok, numbers then: - car makers, three of the top ten (world wide) are German, one is French-Italian with brands in Japan and the US - pharma: pretty even split between US and Swiss companies, two entries in the top ten from the UK, one from France, none from Germany - chemical: two German (no idea why statista wouod count Linde as an Irish company), one from Belgium and one from France in the top ten -aerospace&defence: one British, one French and Airbus (by alleans Frenxh but count it as European if you want) in the top ten I could research this further, but German companies don't seem to be over represented when it comes to large international corporations
systemvoltage 4y ago
> EU's economy but do benefit its citizens in many ways (as far as I am aware). I guess you can easily argue that a stronger economy also is pro-citizen and benefits the people. I have had discussions with close friends in EU and I get the opposite response. They're all in tech aiming to move to CH for better salaries and stronger capitalistic/enterpreneurship environment.
- Moldoteck 4y ago
  Doesn't Switzerland has a law similar to gdpr? plus as many companies are operating in eea too, they must obey gdpr too Salaries of course are better (in some Cantons, not all of them)
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Most people wanting to move to Switzerland due lower taxes and such tend to ignore the way hogher living costs there, in end what you save in taxes is spent on rent and groceries. Best thing is to work in Switzerland but life across the border in France. Even better, replace Switzerland with Luxembourg and benefit from evil-EU enforced retirement benefits. Added bonus, FANG is offering jobs on Luxbourg, if you want to stay in "tech".
    - Moldoteck 4y ago
      there are other advantages there, like some cantons have really low taxes and not so high renting price, plus there are some ways to use your pension ahead of time, as initial deposit for buying a house. Some do not like living across the border in France due to different reasons (qol, safety) but that totally depends on individual
tmalsburg2 4y ago
What’s the evidence for GDPR hurting the economy? And how large is the effect?
MangoCoffee 4y ago
doing business from one EU member to another is very different from the US. US have common language and culture. EU is one zone with different barriers to crack.
ag56 4y ago
There are no mega-companies because it is not a single market in practice. Language alone splits your market. It would be like launching your SV startup only in California and not getting the other 49 states for 'free'. For each new state you launch in, there is regulatory burden and language burden, not to mention culture differences affecting UX. Small markets limit growth and reduce ability to raise capital -> ergo the US competitor will almost always win.
- FooBarWidget 4y ago
  But the US has thousands of different tax jurisdictions. Even US lawyers have difficult time giving fast, proper answers on inter-state tax matters. Law and legal readings change every year. How is the US in practice a single market where you get other states "for free", other than language?
  - Amfy 4y ago
    language and culture is a much bigger factor than tax. Tax is solvable by throwing money at accountants and lawyers. Language and culture, you cannot force to change. Something people love in Germany, most likely will not fly in Spain or Greece. To drive demand is much trickier than solving tax issues.
acchow 4y ago
> A bunch of countries in the EU (looks like about 12) has a happiness index score higher or the same as the US If you're going to handpick states within the EU, shouldn't you also handpick states within the USA?

hef19898 4y ago

Regarding those "mega-corps", Europe has quite a few of those as well. Food, aerospace, automotive, machinery, pharma, chemicals...

partiallypro 4y ago
Most of them are German. Automotive is a huge global driver and Germany has 3 of the top 10 companies; it's just a fact.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Sanofi, Nestle, Airbus, Stellantis are not. And those are just the ones I come up woth from top of my head. Germany's strength are actually mid sozed comoanies ezcellong it what they do. And the big obes, is it really a surprise that the biggest EU economy actually has a fair share mega corps?
  - partiallypro 4y ago
    Airbus is a consortium created to compete with US companies. Nestle is Swiss and isn't in the EU, which is what we're discussing.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      Ok, numbers then: - car makers, three of the top ten (world wide) are German, one is French-Italian with brands in Japan and the US - pharma: pretty even split between US and Swiss companies, two entries in the top ten from the UK, one from France, none from Germany - chemical: two German (no idea why statista wouod count Linde as an Irish company), one from Belgium and one from France in the top ten -aerospace&defence: one British, one French and Airbus (by alleans Frenxh but count it as European if you want) in the top ten I could research this further, but German companies don't seem to be over represented when it comes to large international corporations

systemvoltage 4y ago

> EU's economy but do benefit its citizens in many ways (as far as I am aware). I guess you can easily argue that a stronger economy also is pro-citizen and benefits the people. I have had discussions with close friends in EU and I get the opposite response. They're all in tech aiming to move to CH for better salaries and stronger capitalistic/enterpreneurship environment.

Moldoteck 4y ago
Doesn't Switzerland has a law similar to gdpr? plus as many companies are operating in eea too, they must obey gdpr too Salaries of course are better (in some Cantons, not all of them)
- hef19898 4y ago
  Most people wanting to move to Switzerland due lower taxes and such tend to ignore the way hogher living costs there, in end what you save in taxes is spent on rent and groceries. Best thing is to work in Switzerland but life across the border in France. Even better, replace Switzerland with Luxembourg and benefit from evil-EU enforced retirement benefits. Added bonus, FANG is offering jobs on Luxbourg, if you want to stay in "tech".
  - Moldoteck 4y ago
    there are other advantages there, like some cantons have really low taxes and not so high renting price, plus there are some ways to use your pension ahead of time, as initial deposit for buying a house. Some do not like living across the border in France due to different reasons (qol, safety) but that totally depends on individual

tmalsburg2 4y ago

What’s the evidence for GDPR hurting the economy? And how large is the effect?

MangoCoffee 4y ago

doing business from one EU member to another is very different from the US. US have common language and culture. EU is one zone with different barriers to crack.

ag56 4y ago

There are no mega-companies because it is not a single market in practice. Language alone splits your market. It would be like launching your SV startup only in California and not getting the other 49 states for 'free'. For each new state you launch in, there is regulatory burden and language burden, not to mention culture differences affecting UX. Small markets limit growth and reduce ability to raise capital -> ergo the US competitor will almost always win.

FooBarWidget 4y ago
But the US has thousands of different tax jurisdictions. Even US lawyers have difficult time giving fast, proper answers on inter-state tax matters. Law and legal readings change every year. How is the US in practice a single market where you get other states "for free", other than language?
- Amfy 4y ago
  language and culture is a much bigger factor than tax. Tax is solvable by throwing money at accountants and lawyers. Language and culture, you cannot force to change. Something people love in Germany, most likely will not fly in Spain or Greece. To drive demand is much trickier than solving tax issues.

acchow 4y ago

> A bunch of countries in the EU (looks like about 12) has a happiness index score higher or the same as the US If you're going to handpick states within the EU, shouldn't you also handpick states within the USA?