4 ms·

> As someone only a little older than yourself, I would say this: your job will never love you back, and especially in the software realm, it may not be as fulf

> As someone only a little older than yourself, I would say this: your job will never love you back, and especially in the software realm, it may not be as fulfilling as something like woodworking or therapy. It does pay the bills, though. Reminded me of https://github.com/docker/cli/issues/267#issuecomment-695149477 https://github.com/docker/cli/issues/267#issuecomment-695149... > I no longer build software; I now make furniture out of wood. The hours are long, the pay sucks, and there's always the opportunity to remove my finger with a table saw, but nobody asks me if I can add an RSS feed to a DBMS, so there's that :-) Relevant discussion of that thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24541964 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24541964 I think you summarized it well :)

imdsm 4y ago
I remember the woodworking post, and think about it a lot.
- marincounty 4y ago
endymi0n 4y ago
I have observed over the years a tendency of people leaving software for something completely different (often something much more tangible). Maybe that’s your beef, maybe not. My take on it is slightly different: It could very well be that instead of burnout, you are just missing purpose and meaning in your life. What is the legacy that you want to build for your kids? Don’t despair. It’s all good. Give yourself props for mastering all but the highest layer of Maslow‘s pyramid. You’ve achieved something most people on this planet never will. Onto the last one. Good luck with that!
- MrDresden 4y ago
  Being a software developer is but the initial larval stage.
- willhslade 4y ago
  I didn't want to edit my original post, but this is also relevant to this discussion and came up recently. It echoes your observations. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31724942 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31724942 https://whoisnnamdi.com/never-enough-developers/ https://whoisnnamdi.com/never-enough-developers/
- HelloMcFly 4y ago
  > What is the legacy that you want to build for your kids? I think for some it's worth challenging the need for a "legacy" in the first place. This certainly is what helped my well-being, not feeling like I had to accomplish X or achieve Y for life to have been "worth it." I want to be kind, stay fed, and help others feel like things are OK which can be done through service both big and small. I guess it's about finding larger meaning in the smaller interactions vs. larger artifacts of legacy. I'm not entirely in love with how I've represented my thoughts on this, but hopefully the meaning is conveyed.
  - rubicon33 4y ago
    Not OP but, I don't have any issue with legacy, but I do with purpose. What's the point of it all? That's my core struggle.
    - badpun 4y ago
      I would say that, if one asks this question to often, then it's a sign of depression. Non-depressed people don't worry about such issues.
      - rubicon33 4y ago
        I have been told this before, by a therapist. The problem is, the first time I asked this question (the first known time at least) I was 6 years old. It's recorded on home video. I've always wondered, if "god" made us, then who made "god"? And why? What am I doing here? Work, eat, sex, get old, get sick, die?
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - HelloMcFly 4y ago
      I have two thoughts on this, though I think the distinction between legacy and purpose is ultimately pretty thing. 1) Why does your existence need a "point"? Is the need to define such a thing coming from something innate, or is it a reaction to the world and expectations around you? 2) Define your own purpose, that's all anyone has ever done. There is nothing inherent. You almost certainly can't go wrong by giving your time to others, but even less "high-minded" pursuits - such as just consuming, appreciating culture - are valid paths. I think people fall into the trap of believing the only valid purpose is one that leaves a mark. It's a miracle any of exist, it's a valid purpose to just experience that miracle (hopefully in a way that doesn't preclude, or perhaps even enables, others to do the same). But I'm not particularly informed, just relaying my own journey with this question.
- MarcelOlsz 4y ago
  I am leaving to the Caparthian mountains to pursue building violins and to open a wedding destination so I can play them as much as possible. I am very close. I don't hate software but I really do miss the physical aspect of work so I think I found a way to "bridge the gap". It's also hard to really play after thinking all day.
- drakonka 4y ago
  I have gotten into writing and self-publishing fiction. It's not as physically tangible as moving into farming or woodworking, but feels far enough from programming to sort of count in this same category. When (re)-discovering that I really liked writing I also took on an SE role that involved both coding and technical writing. I love coding and don't think I'll ever want to stop doing it, but I realised that over the years this one hobby turned into a profession and then turned into my entire identity and sole preoccupation. Trying something totally different, like writing fiction, seems to have helped me to break free a bit of the box I built around myself. But I do still dream of also starting a chicken rescue farm.
- username428 4y ago
  I feel like"software" is a really big bucket and there's actually a wide spectrum of projects with different scopes and missions. Some projects are actively harmful to society and I would have a hard time getting meaning from building such software. However there is also a lot of useful progress we can make too, so anyone finding low motivation to keep at it should consider building something else as an option.

imdsm 4y ago

I remember the woodworking post, and think about it a lot.

marincounty 4y ago

endymi0n 4y ago

I have observed over the years a tendency of people leaving software for something completely different (often something much more tangible). Maybe that’s your beef, maybe not. My take on it is slightly different: It could very well be that instead of burnout, you are just missing purpose and meaning in your life. What is the legacy that you want to build for your kids? Don’t despair. It’s all good. Give yourself props for mastering all but the highest layer of Maslow‘s pyramid. You’ve achieved something most people on this planet never will. Onto the last one. Good luck with that!

MrDresden 4y ago
Being a software developer is but the initial larval stage.
willhslade 4y ago
I didn't want to edit my original post, but this is also relevant to this discussion and came up recently. It echoes your observations. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31724942 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31724942 https://whoisnnamdi.com/never-enough-developers/ https://whoisnnamdi.com/never-enough-developers/
HelloMcFly 4y ago
> What is the legacy that you want to build for your kids? I think for some it's worth challenging the need for a "legacy" in the first place. This certainly is what helped my well-being, not feeling like I had to accomplish X or achieve Y for life to have been "worth it." I want to be kind, stay fed, and help others feel like things are OK which can be done through service both big and small. I guess it's about finding larger meaning in the smaller interactions vs. larger artifacts of legacy. I'm not entirely in love with how I've represented my thoughts on this, but hopefully the meaning is conveyed.
- rubicon33 4y ago
  Not OP but, I don't have any issue with legacy, but I do with purpose. What's the point of it all? That's my core struggle.
  - badpun 4y ago
    I would say that, if one asks this question to often, then it's a sign of depression. Non-depressed people don't worry about such issues.
    - rubicon33 4y ago
      I have been told this before, by a therapist. The problem is, the first time I asked this question (the first known time at least) I was 6 years old. It's recorded on home video. I've always wondered, if "god" made us, then who made "god"? And why? What am I doing here? Work, eat, sex, get old, get sick, die?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - HelloMcFly 4y ago
    I have two thoughts on this, though I think the distinction between legacy and purpose is ultimately pretty thing. 1) Why does your existence need a "point"? Is the need to define such a thing coming from something innate, or is it a reaction to the world and expectations around you? 2) Define your own purpose, that's all anyone has ever done. There is nothing inherent. You almost certainly can't go wrong by giving your time to others, but even less "high-minded" pursuits - such as just consuming, appreciating culture - are valid paths. I think people fall into the trap of believing the only valid purpose is one that leaves a mark. It's a miracle any of exist, it's a valid purpose to just experience that miracle (hopefully in a way that doesn't preclude, or perhaps even enables, others to do the same). But I'm not particularly informed, just relaying my own journey with this question.
MarcelOlsz 4y ago
I am leaving to the Caparthian mountains to pursue building violins and to open a wedding destination so I can play them as much as possible. I am very close. I don't hate software but I really do miss the physical aspect of work so I think I found a way to "bridge the gap". It's also hard to really play after thinking all day.
drakonka 4y ago
I have gotten into writing and self-publishing fiction. It's not as physically tangible as moving into farming or woodworking, but feels far enough from programming to sort of count in this same category. When (re)-discovering that I really liked writing I also took on an SE role that involved both coding and technical writing. I love coding and don't think I'll ever want to stop doing it, but I realised that over the years this one hobby turned into a profession and then turned into my entire identity and sole preoccupation. Trying something totally different, like writing fiction, seems to have helped me to break free a bit of the box I built around myself. But I do still dream of also starting a chicken rescue farm.
username428 4y ago
I feel like"software" is a really big bucket and there's actually a wide spectrum of projects with different scopes and missions. Some projects are actively harmful to society and I would have a hard time getting meaning from building such software. However there is also a lot of useful progress we can make too, so anyone finding low motivation to keep at it should consider building something else as an option.