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From the same facts I have the completely opposite reading that you have. Despite the constant propaganda telling you otherwise in the USA, Ukraine has been a m

From the same facts I have the completely opposite reading that you have. Despite the constant propaganda telling you otherwise in the USA, Ukraine has been a major defeat for NATO. Economic sanctions on Russia were useless. China didn’t budge nor did India nor did most of Africa and South America highlighting the new irrelevance of the USA. Ukraine failed to properly negotiate after stopping the Kiev advance when it would have been advantageous to do so because the USA was a poor steward and is now sure to lose significant territories in the south. The war will not be allowed to keep going for long because it has a significant impact on Ukraine allies economies and these allies are already significantly pushing for new negotiations to take place. Sweden and Finland joined NATO at significant cost to them in their negotiations with Turkey. It’s not far from a complete debacle honestly.

galaxyLogic 4y ago
> Ukraine has been a major defeat for NATO. In a war everybody loses. Blowing up buildings and killing people how could that not be a defeat for everybody. The question is who started it? Who is the aggressor?
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  I remain a Clausewitzian at heart. War is the continuation of politics. When the dust will settle, the situation between both side will have been altered in way which couldn’t be reached diplomatically and at this point I think the end result seems more favorable to Russia than the west.
  - galaxyLogic 4y ago
    Politics is ok. Starting politics is ok. Starting a war is not ok. It is a crime to start a war.
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      Countries start wars all the time. The USA started four since I was born including one outside of the international framework which would have given it a thin veneer of legitimacy. I dislike wars as much as anyone else. They are a waste of resources especially when they drag for no reason. But they are more or less a fact of life. What matter is understanding whose interests they serve and why they are waged so we can build the conditions of a stable peace. Ideals are not going to get you far in international politics but they certainly are an easy string to tug on for propaganda purpose.
_kbh_ 4y ago
> Economic sanctions on Russia were useless The sanctions on Russia have caused them to be unable to wage war in a way that they could have previously, which was the point. On top of the number of people living below the poverty line in Russia in the first quarter of 2022 rose by 69%. Probably not all the sanctions, but given the amount of jobs that just up and left its likely related. > China didn’t budge nor did India nor did most of Africa and South America highlighting the new irrelevance of the USA China, Russias 'closest' ally with a 'unlimited friendship' isn't doing anything outside of providing humanitarian aid to Russia. They clearly want no part of it. > Ukraine failed to properly negotiate after stopping the Kiev advance when it would have been advantageous to do so because the USA was a poor steward and is now sure to lose significant territories in the south Ukraine will now likely retake Crimea if things keep going how they have been the past two weeks, if Russia never invaded they would of ironically kept more land. I await the day that Russia loses their black sea fleet. > The war will not be allowed to keep going for long because it has a significant impact on Ukraine allies economies and these allies are already significantly pushing for new negotiations to take place. Sweden and Finland joined NATO at significant cost to them in their negotiations with Turkey. It’s not far from a complete debacle honestly. Ukraines allies have repeatedly said that any negotiations are up to Ukraine, I think that a lot of the allies (especially eastern European states that have felt the thumb of Russia before) know that this war is about a lot more than Ukraine and Russia.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  You are deluded. To quickly reply to you (at that point a long answer would be a waste of my time), sanctions didn’t meaningfully impact Russia revenue which raised with gaz and oil prices. China is actually importing things from Russia. Ukraine has no chance of retaking Crimea - which doesn’t want to be retaken anyway - and is currently losing territories, infrastructures and seeing a very real erosion of its available manpower not winning them. Negotiations have to be made by Ukraine obviously but allies have a lot of sway there. Ukraine couldn’t wage this war without the support of NATO countries and these countries are first and foremost serving their own interests as usual.
  - 4y ago

galaxyLogic 4y ago

> Ukraine has been a major defeat for NATO. In a war everybody loses. Blowing up buildings and killing people how could that not be a defeat for everybody. The question is who started it? Who is the aggressor?

WastingMyTime89 4y ago
I remain a Clausewitzian at heart. War is the continuation of politics. When the dust will settle, the situation between both side will have been altered in way which couldn’t be reached diplomatically and at this point I think the end result seems more favorable to Russia than the west.
- galaxyLogic 4y ago
  Politics is ok. Starting politics is ok. Starting a war is not ok. It is a crime to start a war.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    Countries start wars all the time. The USA started four since I was born including one outside of the international framework which would have given it a thin veneer of legitimacy. I dislike wars as much as anyone else. They are a waste of resources especially when they drag for no reason. But they are more or less a fact of life. What matter is understanding whose interests they serve and why they are waged so we can build the conditions of a stable peace. Ideals are not going to get you far in international politics but they certainly are an easy string to tug on for propaganda purpose.

_kbh_ 4y ago

> Economic sanctions on Russia were useless The sanctions on Russia have caused them to be unable to wage war in a way that they could have previously, which was the point. On top of the number of people living below the poverty line in Russia in the first quarter of 2022 rose by 69%. Probably not all the sanctions, but given the amount of jobs that just up and left its likely related. > China didn’t budge nor did India nor did most of Africa and South America highlighting the new irrelevance of the USA China, Russias 'closest' ally with a 'unlimited friendship' isn't doing anything outside of providing humanitarian aid to Russia. They clearly want no part of it. > Ukraine failed to properly negotiate after stopping the Kiev advance when it would have been advantageous to do so because the USA was a poor steward and is now sure to lose significant territories in the south Ukraine will now likely retake Crimea if things keep going how they have been the past two weeks, if Russia never invaded they would of ironically kept more land. I await the day that Russia loses their black sea fleet. > The war will not be allowed to keep going for long because it has a significant impact on Ukraine allies economies and these allies are already significantly pushing for new negotiations to take place. Sweden and Finland joined NATO at significant cost to them in their negotiations with Turkey. It’s not far from a complete debacle honestly. Ukraines allies have repeatedly said that any negotiations are up to Ukraine, I think that a lot of the allies (especially eastern European states that have felt the thumb of Russia before) know that this war is about a lot more than Ukraine and Russia.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago
You are deluded. To quickly reply to you (at that point a long answer would be a waste of my time), sanctions didn’t meaningfully impact Russia revenue which raised with gaz and oil prices. China is actually importing things from Russia. Ukraine has no chance of retaking Crimea - which doesn’t want to be retaken anyway - and is currently losing territories, infrastructures and seeing a very real erosion of its available manpower not winning them. Negotiations have to be made by Ukraine obviously but allies have a lot of sway there. Ukraine couldn’t wage this war without the support of NATO countries and these countries are first and foremost serving their own interests as usual.
- 4y ago