4 ms·

I don't know the details of this case, but I read above that at least some of these were made up by agents?

by cinntaile 4y ago

tptacek 4y ago
The Internet believes a bunch of stuff about this case that is trivially refuted by reading the actual case documents.
- Phlarp 4y ago
  Did anyone die as a direct result of Ross giving an order / paying for a murder? Did the police investigating Ross misrepresent these murders to him while they were occurring? Did the police investigating Ross attempt to enrich themselves by stealing illicit funds from his drug enterprise or by selling him details of the pending investigation? I'll give you that the courts have repeatedly held the police can legally do most of these things, and that even having lying/stealing cops running the investigation doesn't invalidate the fruits of that investigation. Perhaps you could also concede that a lot of observers are going to have difficulty seeing the difference in these two shades of grey?
  - tptacek 4y ago
    (1) No, because they were an FBI sting. (2) Presumably not, because they held up in court. (3) I have no idea, and don't see the relevance to Ulbricht. By all means, prosecute any corrupt FBI agents that were involved. I'm not making a grand normative claim about the justice of the Ulbricht sentence (I think he's a monster, but also that sentences in general are too high). I'm simply establishing that the extraordinarily common Internet narrative of "Ulbricht was never charged with a murder-for-hire scheme, and rumors about it were prejudicial to the case" is irrefutably false. That's as far as I go with this stuff.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Did anyone die as a direct result of Ross giving an order / paying for a murder? I'm pretty sure it's highly illegal to take actions that you think will lead to a murder, even if the plot if unsuccessful.

4 ms·

I don't know the details of this case, but I read above that at least some of these were made up by agents?

by cinntaile 4y ago

I don't know the details of this case, but I read above that at least some of these were made up by agents?

tptacek 4y ago
The Internet believes a bunch of stuff about this case that is trivially refuted by reading the actual case documents.
- Phlarp 4y ago
  Did anyone die as a direct result of Ross giving an order / paying for a murder? Did the police investigating Ross misrepresent these murders to him while they were occurring? Did the police investigating Ross attempt to enrich themselves by stealing illicit funds from his drug enterprise or by selling him details of the pending investigation? I'll give you that the courts have repeatedly held the police can legally do most of these things, and that even having lying/stealing cops running the investigation doesn't invalidate the fruits of that investigation. Perhaps you could also concede that a lot of observers are going to have difficulty seeing the difference in these two shades of grey?
  - tptacek 4y ago
    (1) No, because they were an FBI sting. (2) Presumably not, because they held up in court. (3) I have no idea, and don't see the relevance to Ulbricht. By all means, prosecute any corrupt FBI agents that were involved. I'm not making a grand normative claim about the justice of the Ulbricht sentence (I think he's a monster, but also that sentences in general are too high). I'm simply establishing that the extraordinarily common Internet narrative of "Ulbricht was never charged with a murder-for-hire scheme, and rumors about it were prejudicial to the case" is irrefutably false. That's as far as I go with this stuff.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Did anyone die as a direct result of Ross giving an order / paying for a murder? I'm pretty sure it's highly illegal to take actions that you think will lead to a murder, even if the plot if unsuccessful.