5 ms·

I've been expecting Germany will turn their nuclear plants back on soon, given the Ukraine situation. Haven't seen it happen yet though.

toxik 4y ago
It’s really not that simple. The reasons for shutting down are multiple, not the least of which is staffing.
cm2187 4y ago
By the look of it, it seems they prefer coal and power cuts to nuclear energy. As long as they own their choices.
- loudmax 4y ago
  As those coal plants pump out sulfur and carbon dioxide, we all own their choices.
wongarsu 4y ago
When we originally legislated the closing of the nuclear plants, the next (conservative) government reverted those plans, only to change their minds after Fukushima. If we now revert again, the comedians would have a field day with Germany doing an exit from exit from the exit from the exit from nuclear energy
fabian2k 4y ago
The plants would need refueling and a big safety check and overhaul, which would take them offline at pretty much exactly the time where they would be the most useful. The only way to make them useful for this situation would be to skip the safety check. And everything the last few years has been done under the assumption that they will shut down, this is not an easy decision to reverse on the spot. And for energy generation we can fall back to coal, which is easier and quicker to reactivate than nuclear energy. Not nice in terms of CO2, but the most practical solution right now.
nivenkos 4y ago
Electricity isn't the issue, several countries have re-opened coal plants to deal with that (also from what I understand the nuclear plants can't just be turned back on, they are several stages through decommissioning and were already reaching the end of service without refurbishment, etc.). But natural gas itself is still required for industry and domestic heating in most of Europe, and that cannot be solved in the 3 months remaining to winter.
sph 4y ago
I still do not understand why there's a lot of focus on Germany without mentioning Italy. They have voted in the 80s to ban nuclear power as well, and now energy costs are through the roof. It will be an awful, expensive winter over there importing French nuclear electricity and Russian gas. AFAIK there is no movement whatsoever to reconsider that referendum. Last I checked Italians are very much against it.
- nivenkos 4y ago
  Italy can get gas from Algeria IIRC - like Spain does from Nigeria too. But the referendum doesn't matter right now anyway, there is no way to rush through electrification of domestic heating and industry and build functional nuclear power plants in ~4 months. So the only question is what to do regarding gas sources or shortages.
- riffraff 4y ago
  Italy also voted recently to ban nuclear _again_ after it had been allowed a second time. There are some people in favor, but it's unlikely to get reversed any time soon. FWIW, France is currently importing energy from Germany, and will be doing that until the winter, because they shut down many reactors for maintenance, the futures for electricity in France were > €1200/MWh last week.
  - baybal2 4y ago
  - sph 4y ago
    > Italy also voted recently to ban nuclear _again_ after it had been allowed a second time. The first referendum was 6 months after Chernobyl, the second one 3 months after Fukushima. No wonder the outcome was overwhelmingly against it. Demagogy in its purest form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Italy
  - throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
    holy fucking shit. will consumers really end up paying 1.2 euro for a kWh?
rob74 4y ago
Well, to continue operating the three nuclear plants that are currently still operating (not to mention restarting those that have been shut down years ago), they would have to order new fuel rods. Obviously those aren't things you can simply order on Amazon. Usually, these orders have to be planned years in advance, and the chances of reducing the waiting time are pretty slim, because guess who is the largest manufacturer? Right, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosatom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosatom.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Every so often I see adverts for a far broader range of things than is plausible. I assume Amazon and eBay bought “$NOUN, buy it cheap!” for all nouns. Didn’t see that today, sadly, but I did find this: https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM

toxik 4y ago

It’s really not that simple. The reasons for shutting down are multiple, not the least of which is staffing.

cm2187 4y ago

By the look of it, it seems they prefer coal and power cuts to nuclear energy. As long as they own their choices.

loudmax 4y ago
As those coal plants pump out sulfur and carbon dioxide, we all own their choices.

wongarsu 4y ago

When we originally legislated the closing of the nuclear plants, the next (conservative) government reverted those plans, only to change their minds after Fukushima. If we now revert again, the comedians would have a field day with Germany doing an exit from exit from the exit from the exit from nuclear energy

fabian2k 4y ago

The plants would need refueling and a big safety check and overhaul, which would take them offline at pretty much exactly the time where they would be the most useful. The only way to make them useful for this situation would be to skip the safety check. And everything the last few years has been done under the assumption that they will shut down, this is not an easy decision to reverse on the spot. And for energy generation we can fall back to coal, which is easier and quicker to reactivate than nuclear energy. Not nice in terms of CO2, but the most practical solution right now.

nivenkos 4y ago

Electricity isn't the issue, several countries have re-opened coal plants to deal with that (also from what I understand the nuclear plants can't just be turned back on, they are several stages through decommissioning and were already reaching the end of service without refurbishment, etc.). But natural gas itself is still required for industry and domestic heating in most of Europe, and that cannot be solved in the 3 months remaining to winter.

sph 4y ago

I still do not understand why there's a lot of focus on Germany without mentioning Italy. They have voted in the 80s to ban nuclear power as well, and now energy costs are through the roof. It will be an awful, expensive winter over there importing French nuclear electricity and Russian gas. AFAIK there is no movement whatsoever to reconsider that referendum. Last I checked Italians are very much against it.

nivenkos 4y ago
Italy can get gas from Algeria IIRC - like Spain does from Nigeria too. But the referendum doesn't matter right now anyway, there is no way to rush through electrification of domestic heating and industry and build functional nuclear power plants in ~4 months. So the only question is what to do regarding gas sources or shortages.
riffraff 4y ago
Italy also voted recently to ban nuclear _again_ after it had been allowed a second time. There are some people in favor, but it's unlikely to get reversed any time soon. FWIW, France is currently importing energy from Germany, and will be doing that until the winter, because they shut down many reactors for maintenance, the futures for electricity in France were > €1200/MWh last week.
- baybal2 4y ago
- sph 4y ago
  > Italy also voted recently to ban nuclear _again_ after it had been allowed a second time. The first referendum was 6 months after Chernobyl, the second one 3 months after Fukushima. No wonder the outcome was overwhelmingly against it. Demagogy in its purest form. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Italy
- throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
  holy fucking shit. will consumers really end up paying 1.2 euro for a kWh?

rob74 4y ago

Well, to continue operating the three nuclear plants that are currently still operating (not to mention restarting those that have been shut down years ago), they would have to order new fuel rods. Obviously those aren't things you can simply order on Amazon. Usually, these orders have to be planned years in advance, and the chances of reducing the waiting time are pretty slim, because guess who is the largest manufacturer? Right, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosatom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosatom.

ben_w 4y ago
Every so often I see adverts for a far broader range of things than is plausible. I assume Amazon and eBay bought “$NOUN, buy it cheap!” for all nouns. Didn’t see that today, sadly, but I did find this: https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM https://www.amazon.com/Images-SI-Uranium-Ore/dp/B000796XXM