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It's crazy, it means the costs of imports from the US (oil, cars, even consumer electronics) have shot up almost 20% in a year - and then there's the inflation

It's crazy, it means the costs of imports from the US (oil, cars, even consumer electronics) have shot up almost 20% in a year - and then there's the inflation and looming gas shortages, etc. Neutrality is looking really, really nice right about now. We could keep the gas flowing via NS2 and get some stability back.

CalRobert 4y ago
That depends on what you care about, of course. If you think we need to stop using fossil fuels than furthering reliance on NS2 is bad.
- nivenkos 4y ago
  In the long-term absolutely, but electrification of domestic heating and industry, and nuclear / wind / solar / hydroelectric power plants aren't going to be built by November. Right now we're using coal for electricity again, and that's much worse than using NS2 in the short term.
  - tomp 4y ago
    With the EU preference for kicking the can down the road, and Germany’s tendency to make stupid decisions (e.g. shutting down nuclear), without Russia stirring shit up it would never have happened anyways. Yeah, now, sure millions might freeze to death and die of hunger in the next (few) winter(s) / year(s) but at least politicians can’t deny the problem exists any longer so it will eventually get solved.
- fabian2k 4y ago
  NS2 has never been used, no gas has ever flown through it.
philshem 4y ago
NS2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2
loudmax 4y ago
Putin is counting on Western Europeans to place their short term material comfort ahead of their long term security.
- nivenkos 4y ago
  You say that as though "material comfort" doesn't matter - it's life and death, people will die during the gas shortages, industry will shut down, people will lose their livelihoods, the Euro will crash further, investment and industries will leave entirely. For what? So corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs can skim off their gas transit fees (see Naftogaz and Burisma) instead of corrupt Russian ones, all assisted by far-right paramilitaries (on both sides)? We don't have to take a side in every conflict, especially when it demands so much sacrifice.
  - illiac786 4y ago
    "For what"?? Sure there is tons of corruption in Ukraine, but that's the only thing that comes to your mind? Mass murders, mass rapes, perpetrated by russian soldiers, you choose to forget?...
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danaris 4y ago
"We should totally be appeasing the expansionist, authoritarian dictator biting chunks out of Eastern European countries in order to make sure we don't suffer any economic pain. That never works out poorly for anyone!"

CalRobert 4y ago

That depends on what you care about, of course. If you think we need to stop using fossil fuels than furthering reliance on NS2 is bad.

nivenkos 4y ago
In the long-term absolutely, but electrification of domestic heating and industry, and nuclear / wind / solar / hydroelectric power plants aren't going to be built by November. Right now we're using coal for electricity again, and that's much worse than using NS2 in the short term.
- tomp 4y ago
  With the EU preference for kicking the can down the road, and Germany’s tendency to make stupid decisions (e.g. shutting down nuclear), without Russia stirring shit up it would never have happened anyways. Yeah, now, sure millions might freeze to death and die of hunger in the next (few) winter(s) / year(s) but at least politicians can’t deny the problem exists any longer so it will eventually get solved.
fabian2k 4y ago
NS2 has never been used, no gas has ever flown through it.

philshem 4y ago

NS2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord_Stream_2

loudmax 4y ago

Putin is counting on Western Europeans to place their short term material comfort ahead of their long term security.

nivenkos 4y ago
You say that as though "material comfort" doesn't matter - it's life and death, people will die during the gas shortages, industry will shut down, people will lose their livelihoods, the Euro will crash further, investment and industries will leave entirely. For what? So corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs can skim off their gas transit fees (see Naftogaz and Burisma) instead of corrupt Russian ones, all assisted by far-right paramilitaries (on both sides)? We don't have to take a side in every conflict, especially when it demands so much sacrifice.
- illiac786 4y ago
  "For what"?? Sure there is tons of corruption in Ukraine, but that's the only thing that comes to your mind? Mass murders, mass rapes, perpetrated by russian soldiers, you choose to forget?...

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danaris 4y ago

"We should totally be appeasing the expansionist, authoritarian dictator biting chunks out of Eastern European countries in order to make sure we don't suffer any economic pain. That never works out poorly for anyone!"