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I think OP made the point that in the free market the companies could pay you a certain fee per charge used or something, so that you get remunerated for your b

by carlmr 4y ago

I think OP made the point that in the free market the companies could pay you a certain fee per charge used or something, so that you get remunerated for your battery being used.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
Yes and the value you provide to the grid is less than the cost of cycling your car battery. So it wouldn't work out. You could also pay people to turn magnet wheels for power at night. But it wouldn't work out.
- ahahahahah 4y ago
  You've provided very little support for your position. To be fair, I don't think you are claiming that the idea of using batteries in such a way doesn't make sense as we already know that there are successful deployments of batteries doing exactly this (I mean, you could argue that those deployments aren't actually successful and that they aren't properly taking into account the replacement costs of their batteries, but I don't think there's evidence of that). So then the argument comes down to, why would a power supplier pay individual owners of relatively small batteries to do this when they could just deploy batteries at scale. That then is the more interesting consideration and I don't think it's actually clear that the economics don't work out. Private batteries have some benefits to power companies, for example the infrastructure to support them is almost free (as it's otherwise already required), there's no long-term risk of building out too much (i mean, there is, but the power company doesn't have that risk), etc. All in, it could be that the power company is better served by building out batteries themselves, but that their own battery storage ends up always under-provisioned and that it is economically beneficial to everyone that they then use private distributed battery storage to shore that up.
- BenjiWiebe 4y ago
  This afternoon, in Kansas, the electric company paid us to run our farm off a diesel generator for 3 hours to reduce the load on the grid. Even though fuel price is high, and a 80kw generator isn't nearly as efficient as the utility company's generators, they still pay enough to make it easily worth it. Including the cost of the generator, which we need anyways. The electric company could pay enough to more than cover the battery cycle expense. Plus, if Li-ion are at all similar in this to lead-acid, a deep cycle is many many times more destructive than a shallow cycle.

by carlmr 4y ago

I think OP made the point that in the free market the companies could pay you a certain fee per charge used or something, so that you get remunerated for your battery being used.

spywaregorilla 4y ago

Yes and the value you provide to the grid is less than the cost of cycling your car battery. So it wouldn't work out. You could also pay people to turn magnet wheels for power at night. But it wouldn't work out.

ahahahahah 4y ago
You've provided very little support for your position. To be fair, I don't think you are claiming that the idea of using batteries in such a way doesn't make sense as we already know that there are successful deployments of batteries doing exactly this (I mean, you could argue that those deployments aren't actually successful and that they aren't properly taking into account the replacement costs of their batteries, but I don't think there's evidence of that). So then the argument comes down to, why would a power supplier pay individual owners of relatively small batteries to do this when they could just deploy batteries at scale. That then is the more interesting consideration and I don't think it's actually clear that the economics don't work out. Private batteries have some benefits to power companies, for example the infrastructure to support them is almost free (as it's otherwise already required), there's no long-term risk of building out too much (i mean, there is, but the power company doesn't have that risk), etc. All in, it could be that the power company is better served by building out batteries themselves, but that their own battery storage ends up always under-provisioned and that it is economically beneficial to everyone that they then use private distributed battery storage to shore that up.
BenjiWiebe 4y ago
This afternoon, in Kansas, the electric company paid us to run our farm off a diesel generator for 3 hours to reduce the load on the grid. Even though fuel price is high, and a 80kw generator isn't nearly as efficient as the utility company's generators, they still pay enough to make it easily worth it. Including the cost of the generator, which we need anyways. The electric company could pay enough to more than cover the battery cycle expense. Plus, if Li-ion are at all similar in this to lead-acid, a deep cycle is many many times more destructive than a shallow cycle.