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Good question... onE that people have written countless essays on! Maybe I'll turn it back on you though to give you an idea where I'm coming from: how would yo

Good question... onE that people have written countless essays on! Maybe I'll turn it back on you though to give you an idea where I'm coming from: how would you measure the quality of a friend? Some things are measurable, some are not. Personally, I'm not hiring based on "number of algorithms written per day" or "number of Jira tickets done in a week". For one, I'd almost certainly not get the kinds of people I'd love to work with day-in day-out for years. For another, it strips people of their humanity and autonomy whilst also discouraging contributions outside of measurable work. No doubt other EMs thrive running a faceless sweat shop, but it's not for me.

chadcmulligan 4y ago
> how would you measure the quality of a friend? Sounds a bit like we are all family. I must admit I go to work to have an output and get paid for it, and I like producing above the average, though I don't work in a faceless sweatshop, most managers like measuring everything in my experience. I think you can work hard and have your output measured without being in a sweatshop, and if there is no measures then it's very easy to fall into some sort of open loop with no end. I have friends from places I've worked, but work is work, and a job is a job, its an agreement to produce something for money and at the end of the day I go home and do something else. I do feel covid has shown everyone that this is the case, and to present a job as anything else is disingenuous.
- JofArnold 4y ago
  My experience as an engineering manager is limited (I'm less than a year into that role) so I can't speak too broadly but from what I've seen with my own experiments, a team that has autonomy and respect and are treated like humans are not only happier but will eclipse the performance of teams whose "output" is quantified and measured obsessively. My direct reports and I know what they've achieved and their business impact they've had, without having to record some nebulous one-size-fits all number. To your other points, the reality is most of us have to work to live. So why not make that work the least painful it can be? There's a reason why we largely obey laws; it's because prisons suck and we want to avoid them. In a prison you are dehumanised, your autonomy is removed, you become a faceless number, you rarely leave your cell, your routine is controlled and you're monitored relentlessly. It's not a great life and I would hate to inflict that on anyone.

chadcmulligan 4y ago

> how would you measure the quality of a friend? Sounds a bit like we are all family. I must admit I go to work to have an output and get paid for it, and I like producing above the average, though I don't work in a faceless sweatshop, most managers like measuring everything in my experience. I think you can work hard and have your output measured without being in a sweatshop, and if there is no measures then it's very easy to fall into some sort of open loop with no end. I have friends from places I've worked, but work is work, and a job is a job, its an agreement to produce something for money and at the end of the day I go home and do something else. I do feel covid has shown everyone that this is the case, and to present a job as anything else is disingenuous.

JofArnold 4y ago
My experience as an engineering manager is limited (I'm less than a year into that role) so I can't speak too broadly but from what I've seen with my own experiments, a team that has autonomy and respect and are treated like humans are not only happier but will eclipse the performance of teams whose "output" is quantified and measured obsessively. My direct reports and I know what they've achieved and their business impact they've had, without having to record some nebulous one-size-fits all number. To your other points, the reality is most of us have to work to live. So why not make that work the least painful it can be? There's a reason why we largely obey laws; it's because prisons suck and we want to avoid them. In a prison you are dehumanised, your autonomy is removed, you become a faceless number, you rarely leave your cell, your routine is controlled and you're monitored relentlessly. It's not a great life and I would hate to inflict that on anyone.