4 ms·

> I think this is a big part of the argument that is not discussed, the office environment is so awful you can take my wfh from my cold dead hands, make the off

by voisin 4y ago

> I think this is a big part of the argument that is not discussed, the office environment is so awful you can take my wfh from my cold dead hands, make the office environment better then we can talk. This is where the conversation needs to go. The office could be great, if businesses invested in the best space and furniture in the most vibrant locations, with a variety of working options. Solitude at home doesn’t breed a good culture, but nor does being forced to go to a shitty building in a soulless location to be uncomfortable for 8 hours a day just because an employee needs a paycheck.

chadcmulligan 4y ago
But this costs money and its easier to just gaslight
- jumpkick 4y ago
  What does “gaslight” mean in this context?
  - schaefer 4y ago
    Allow me to quote from my one on one two weeks ago: “The company just isn’t in a position to do more than 1 day a week of work from home right now.” Literally every other team does 4 days a week of work from home…
    - coldtea 4y ago
      "Just isn't in position" == "Some higher up doesn't want it to"
  - chadcmulligan 4y ago
    from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting ...who presents a false narrative to another group or person, thereby leading them to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed... My perceptions - wfh is more productive and comfortable for me, the alternative narrative is offices are better (because reasons), and we need to have face to face etc etc. The arguments are presented without facts and contrary to the evidence, there is an alternative reason - control, lack of trust etc, that is being hidden. as GP said they could make things nice but, nah
  - coldtea 4y ago
    > What does “gaslight” mean in this context? "Do you believe your own lying eyes, over me?"
    - jumpkick 4y ago
      That sounds just like lying.
      - coldtea 4y ago
        Yes, but there are 1000 kinds of lying. Gaslighting is a specific form of it.
cmiles74 4y ago
In my opinion, making the office great should also cover a change in how office work is managed. Didn't the work-from-home of the pandemic highlight just how many office workers really do not need to be so closely observed and managed? Perhaps as part of the process of convincing people to return to the office, more control over schedule and the elimination of busy work like TPS reports could also be considered.
ghaff 4y ago
>most vibrant locations Presumably you mean interesting urban centers? That's fine for people who live in the city. It's mostly awful for anyone who needs to regularly commute in. I worked in the relatively nearby major city for about 18 months a few days a week. I even had a pretty convenient commuter rail line. But it still involved getting up before 6am and spending about 4 hours a day to commute. I don't care how nice the office equipment is or how great the food options are but I couldn't have susstained that long-term.
kcplate 4y ago
Here is the thing…WFH became the new normal. I did WFH for 3 years in 2008-2011, went back to office in 2012 until Covid. I hated it…at first, then settled in to the new normal…commute, shitty chair, noise, bad coffee, no afternoon power nap, the whole banana. In time the pain and complaints fade. Companies may hybrid for a while while WFH jobs are plentiful. Sooner of later, the WFH opportunities will dry or fill up and back to office will be the new normal. Then hybrid will slowly diminish to nothing and in office will be the new normal.

by voisin 4y ago

chadcmulligan 4y ago

But this costs money and its easier to just gaslight

jumpkick 4y ago
What does “gaslight” mean in this context?
- schaefer 4y ago
  Allow me to quote from my one on one two weeks ago: “The company just isn’t in a position to do more than 1 day a week of work from home right now.” Literally every other team does 4 days a week of work from home…
  - coldtea 4y ago
    "Just isn't in position" == "Some higher up doesn't want it to"
- chadcmulligan 4y ago
  from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting ...who presents a false narrative to another group or person, thereby leading them to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed... My perceptions - wfh is more productive and comfortable for me, the alternative narrative is offices are better (because reasons), and we need to have face to face etc etc. The arguments are presented without facts and contrary to the evidence, there is an alternative reason - control, lack of trust etc, that is being hidden. as GP said they could make things nice but, nah
- coldtea 4y ago
  > What does “gaslight” mean in this context? "Do you believe your own lying eyes, over me?"
  - jumpkick 4y ago
    That sounds just like lying.
    - coldtea 4y ago
      Yes, but there are 1000 kinds of lying. Gaslighting is a specific form of it.

cmiles74 4y ago

In my opinion, making the office great should also cover a change in how office work is managed. Didn't the work-from-home of the pandemic highlight just how many office workers really do not need to be so closely observed and managed? Perhaps as part of the process of convincing people to return to the office, more control over schedule and the elimination of busy work like TPS reports could also be considered.

ghaff 4y ago

>most vibrant locations Presumably you mean interesting urban centers? That's fine for people who live in the city. It's mostly awful for anyone who needs to regularly commute in. I worked in the relatively nearby major city for about 18 months a few days a week. I even had a pretty convenient commuter rail line. But it still involved getting up before 6am and spending about 4 hours a day to commute. I don't care how nice the office equipment is or how great the food options are but I couldn't have susstained that long-term.

kcplate 4y ago

Here is the thing…WFH became the new normal. I did WFH for 3 years in 2008-2011, went back to office in 2012 until Covid. I hated it…at first, then settled in to the new normal…commute, shitty chair, noise, bad coffee, no afternoon power nap, the whole banana. In time the pain and complaints fade. Companies may hybrid for a while while WFH jobs are plentiful. Sooner of later, the WFH opportunities will dry or fill up and back to office will be the new normal. Then hybrid will slowly diminish to nothing and in office will be the new normal.