6 ms·

My current choices are wfh with my nice stand up desk, good chair lots of space, fresh lunch when I want it, healthy snacks, no one looking over my shoulder, no

My current choices are wfh with my nice stand up desk, good chair lots of space, fresh lunch when I want it, healthy snacks, no one looking over my shoulder, no need to worry about my colleagues personal hygiene issues vs returning to the office, the chairs are poor, no standup desks, food choices are limited. Also the lost time in travel - say 2 hours a day I can spend walking, looking at the clouds, listening to the birds. I do miss the interaction in the office, but why would I give up the comfort of work from home. I think this is a big part of the argument that is not discussed, the office environment is so awful you can take my wfh from my cold dead hands, make the office environment better then we can talk.

smcleod 4y ago
You took the words right out of my mouth. For all the exact reasons plus the fact there's far less distractions at home and the really big one: I get _so_ much more work done working from home, the extra wins I get each week actually makes me more enthusiastic about my job, I have more time so I have less imposter syndrome and because I'm getting more sleep - I remember more.
coffeefirst 4y ago
Yep. I can't help but notice almost everyone who wants to go back has a private office with a door. Obviously, home office space quality varies wildly, but a whole lot of people who spent their careers until 2020 in open floor plans suddenly got private offices with a door. I'm not saying I'd never go back to any office, but I'm not interested in a bench desk in big open space again.
- turbinerneiter 4y ago
  You could also reverse that. All the people who work from home have a house with a separate room to use as homeoffice. I live in 50 m² flat, my homeoffice is my bedroom. Tiny desk, one monitor. Here in the office I have a huge table with 2 monitors, the electronics lab and the workshop is right behind me and my team sits here. Not all jobs are the same and not all people are the same. There is good reason to like working from the office. The fact that you prefer working from home doesn't mean that only people with private office at work want to work from the office.
  - coldtea 4y ago
    You can have a proper desk and any huge monitor (or three monitors) just fine in a 50m2 flat...
    - turbinerneiter 4y ago
      Sure, just have to kick out my partner. Also, what's the point your are trying to make? coffeefirst implied that only people with private offices at work want to work from the office. I gave some counterpoints explaining that there are other good reasons to work from the office. I like working from the office, and I don't have a private room there. I'm all for remote and hybrid work, but some comments here a bit over the top. Live and let live, why is it a problem for you that I prefer to work from the office? I bend over backwards to make sure the remote people on my team can work from home, even tough this can get pretty annoying if you do hardware.
      - coffeefirst 4y ago
        Sure, I tried to caveat "almost everyone" and "home office space quality varies wildly." Of course, if you don't have the space at home, or have a toddler running around, or specific hardware needs, that all makes perfect sense.
  - ryanbrunner 4y ago
    The thing is, the call isn't for flexibility, which I think very few people would have issues with. The call is for everyone to return to work. One side of the argument allows for the possibility of people working in an office if that works better for them, the other side of the argument insists that everyone does the same thing regardless of suitability.
    - turbinerneiter 4y ago
      That is not what I replied to and that is not what I am calling for. The "one side of the argument" that I replied to, was the accusation that only people with private offices want to work from there rather then from home.
- otabdeveloper4 4y ago
  I don't have a private office with a door in my home. (At least the office doesn't have screaming kids in it.)
usrn 4y ago
I think I'd be more willing to go to the office if I got a large pay raise to but only because there's cheap housing within walking distance of mine. If I had to commute every day again I'd be pretty upset. Maybe if I could count the drive against the 8 hours I'm supposed to be in the office (so it would be ok to get there by 10-11am instead of 9 and leave by 3-4pm instead of 5.)
blisterpeanuts 4y ago
Also, coffee. Offices usually offer either Maxwell House drip brew, or K-cups. Increasingly, the latter. To me, Keurig tastes like powdered instant. As for sweeteners and creamers, the selection is a bit random. At the home office, I make coffee exactly the way I prefer. If I want variety, I can take a 10 minute break and pop down to the Bucks or McD’s. Office kitchenettes… feh.
- coffeefirst 4y ago
  Oof, I forgot about the kitchenettes. And most importantly, the sponge. I've never seen an office kitchen without a grotesque sponge that was about a week away from becoming sentient and attempting to make awkward small talk.
  - paulmd 4y ago
    why is nobody talking about the REAL benefit of going back to the office... "respectful personal use" of the color laserjet and the office supplies!? https://tadleckman.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/creamer-hoarder/ https://tadleckman.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/creamer-hoarder/ how am I supposed to engage in a pointless yet personally significant act of rebellion and defiance without access to the supply closet!? (/s not /s)
voisin 4y ago
> I think this is a big part of the argument that is not discussed, the office environment is so awful you can take my wfh from my cold dead hands, make the office environment better then we can talk. This is where the conversation needs to go. The office could be great, if businesses invested in the best space and furniture in the most vibrant locations, with a variety of working options. Solitude at home doesn’t breed a good culture, but nor does being forced to go to a shitty building in a soulless location to be uncomfortable for 8 hours a day just because an employee needs a paycheck.
- chadcmulligan 4y ago
  But this costs money and its easier to just gaslight
  - jumpkick 4y ago
    What does “gaslight” mean in this context?
    - schaefer 4y ago
      Allow me to quote from my one on one two weeks ago: “The company just isn’t in a position to do more than 1 day a week of work from home right now.” Literally every other team does 4 days a week of work from home…
      - coldtea 4y ago
        "Just isn't in position" == "Some higher up doesn't want it to"
    - chadcmulligan 4y ago
      from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting ...who presents a false narrative to another group or person, thereby leading them to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed... My perceptions - wfh is more productive and comfortable for me, the alternative narrative is offices are better (because reasons), and we need to have face to face etc etc. The arguments are presented without facts and contrary to the evidence, there is an alternative reason - control, lack of trust etc, that is being hidden. as GP said they could make things nice but, nah
maccard 4y ago
I have a very similar home office setup to you, but not all office environments are 20 year old chairs with burnt nescafe that you pay £1/cup for. My previous job had independent standing desks, modern aerons, noise cancelling headphones, bean to cup coffee, a few floors above a gym, surrounded by varied lunch options. > Also the lost time in travel - say 2 hours a day I can spend walking My commute to the office was a 35 minute walk each way through a park and a historic city centre. Of course YMMV, but it rubs me the wrong way when people who decided to take on long commutes for better pay talk about how it's being taken away from them and everyone should feel the same way, when lots of people make the compromise of living in a city to not have those problems.
- sph 4y ago
  > My previous job had independent standing desks, modern aerons, noise cancelling headphones, bean to cup coffee, a few floors above a gym, surrounded by varied lunch options Yeah that sounds nice, but it is more comfortable than your own home?
  - throw-ru-938 4y ago
    Not the GP but yes. Not everyone lives in a luxury house.
    - badpun 4y ago
      It's not luxury if there's 7 other people (talking, making noises etc.) in the same room with you. It's basically a hostel room.
      - throw-ru-938 4y ago
        Allow me to introduce you to the concepts of 'roommates' and 'children'. (Some of my colleagues returned to the office as soon as it was allowed, just to spend some time away from their families.)
    - sph 4y ago
whoomp12342 4y ago
its about control. Those managing and directing are drunk with das power
anothernewdude 4y ago
I just moved cities to one that is nice, cheap, but doesn't have any jobs. Because I'm all in on remote. I get less sick, can live near nice walking tracks, and don't need to commute. I genuinely think most very big cities will slowly die, just like they slowly grew.
thefz 4y ago
Plus: soundscape hygiene (I can have silence, or music, or anything in between) and of course your own toilet.

smcleod 4y ago

You took the words right out of my mouth. For all the exact reasons plus the fact there's far less distractions at home and the really big one: I get _so_ much more work done working from home, the extra wins I get each week actually makes me more enthusiastic about my job, I have more time so I have less imposter syndrome and because I'm getting more sleep - I remember more.

coffeefirst 4y ago

Yep. I can't help but notice almost everyone who wants to go back has a private office with a door. Obviously, home office space quality varies wildly, but a whole lot of people who spent their careers until 2020 in open floor plans suddenly got private offices with a door. I'm not saying I'd never go back to any office, but I'm not interested in a bench desk in big open space again.

turbinerneiter 4y ago
You could also reverse that. All the people who work from home have a house with a separate room to use as homeoffice. I live in 50 m² flat, my homeoffice is my bedroom. Tiny desk, one monitor. Here in the office I have a huge table with 2 monitors, the electronics lab and the workshop is right behind me and my team sits here. Not all jobs are the same and not all people are the same. There is good reason to like working from the office. The fact that you prefer working from home doesn't mean that only people with private office at work want to work from the office.
- coldtea 4y ago
  You can have a proper desk and any huge monitor (or three monitors) just fine in a 50m2 flat...
  - turbinerneiter 4y ago
    Sure, just have to kick out my partner. Also, what's the point your are trying to make? coffeefirst implied that only people with private offices at work want to work from the office. I gave some counterpoints explaining that there are other good reasons to work from the office. I like working from the office, and I don't have a private room there. I'm all for remote and hybrid work, but some comments here a bit over the top. Live and let live, why is it a problem for you that I prefer to work from the office? I bend over backwards to make sure the remote people on my team can work from home, even tough this can get pretty annoying if you do hardware.
    - coffeefirst 4y ago
      Sure, I tried to caveat "almost everyone" and "home office space quality varies wildly." Of course, if you don't have the space at home, or have a toddler running around, or specific hardware needs, that all makes perfect sense.
- ryanbrunner 4y ago
  The thing is, the call isn't for flexibility, which I think very few people would have issues with. The call is for everyone to return to work. One side of the argument allows for the possibility of people working in an office if that works better for them, the other side of the argument insists that everyone does the same thing regardless of suitability.
  - turbinerneiter 4y ago
    That is not what I replied to and that is not what I am calling for. The "one side of the argument" that I replied to, was the accusation that only people with private offices want to work from there rather then from home.
otabdeveloper4 4y ago
I don't have a private office with a door in my home. (At least the office doesn't have screaming kids in it.)

usrn 4y ago

I think I'd be more willing to go to the office if I got a large pay raise to but only because there's cheap housing within walking distance of mine. If I had to commute every day again I'd be pretty upset. Maybe if I could count the drive against the 8 hours I'm supposed to be in the office (so it would be ok to get there by 10-11am instead of 9 and leave by 3-4pm instead of 5.)

blisterpeanuts 4y ago

Also, coffee. Offices usually offer either Maxwell House drip brew, or K-cups. Increasingly, the latter. To me, Keurig tastes like powdered instant. As for sweeteners and creamers, the selection is a bit random. At the home office, I make coffee exactly the way I prefer. If I want variety, I can take a 10 minute break and pop down to the Bucks or McD’s. Office kitchenettes… feh.

coffeefirst 4y ago
Oof, I forgot about the kitchenettes. And most importantly, the sponge. I've never seen an office kitchen without a grotesque sponge that was about a week away from becoming sentient and attempting to make awkward small talk.
- paulmd 4y ago
  why is nobody talking about the REAL benefit of going back to the office... "respectful personal use" of the color laserjet and the office supplies!? https://tadleckman.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/creamer-hoarder/ https://tadleckman.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/creamer-hoarder/ how am I supposed to engage in a pointless yet personally significant act of rebellion and defiance without access to the supply closet!? (/s not /s)

voisin 4y ago

> I think this is a big part of the argument that is not discussed, the office environment is so awful you can take my wfh from my cold dead hands, make the office environment better then we can talk. This is where the conversation needs to go. The office could be great, if businesses invested in the best space and furniture in the most vibrant locations, with a variety of working options. Solitude at home doesn’t breed a good culture, but nor does being forced to go to a shitty building in a soulless location to be uncomfortable for 8 hours a day just because an employee needs a paycheck.

chadcmulligan 4y ago
But this costs money and its easier to just gaslight
- jumpkick 4y ago
  What does “gaslight” mean in this context?
  - schaefer 4y ago
    Allow me to quote from my one on one two weeks ago: “The company just isn’t in a position to do more than 1 day a week of work from home right now.” Literally every other team does 4 days a week of work from home…
    - coldtea 4y ago
      "Just isn't in position" == "Some higher up doesn't want it to"
  - chadcmulligan 4y ago
    from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting ...who presents a false narrative to another group or person, thereby leading them to doubt their perceptions and become misled, disoriented or distressed... My perceptions - wfh is more productive and comfortable for me, the alternative narrative is offices are better (because reasons), and we need to have face to face etc etc. The arguments are presented without facts and contrary to the evidence, there is an alternative reason - control, lack of trust etc, that is being hidden. as GP said they could make things nice but, nah

maccard 4y ago

I have a very similar home office setup to you, but not all office environments are 20 year old chairs with burnt nescafe that you pay £1/cup for. My previous job had independent standing desks, modern aerons, noise cancelling headphones, bean to cup coffee, a few floors above a gym, surrounded by varied lunch options. > Also the lost time in travel - say 2 hours a day I can spend walking My commute to the office was a 35 minute walk each way through a park and a historic city centre. Of course YMMV, but it rubs me the wrong way when people who decided to take on long commutes for better pay talk about how it's being taken away from them and everyone should feel the same way, when lots of people make the compromise of living in a city to not have those problems.

sph 4y ago
> My previous job had independent standing desks, modern aerons, noise cancelling headphones, bean to cup coffee, a few floors above a gym, surrounded by varied lunch options Yeah that sounds nice, but it is more comfortable than your own home?
- throw-ru-938 4y ago
  Not the GP but yes. Not everyone lives in a luxury house.
  - badpun 4y ago
    It's not luxury if there's 7 other people (talking, making noises etc.) in the same room with you. It's basically a hostel room.
    - throw-ru-938 4y ago
      Allow me to introduce you to the concepts of 'roommates' and 'children'. (Some of my colleagues returned to the office as soon as it was allowed, just to spend some time away from their families.)
  - sph 4y ago

whoomp12342 4y ago

its about control. Those managing and directing are drunk with das power

anothernewdude 4y ago

I just moved cities to one that is nice, cheap, but doesn't have any jobs. Because I'm all in on remote. I get less sick, can live near nice walking tracks, and don't need to commute. I genuinely think most very big cities will slowly die, just like they slowly grew.

thefz 4y ago

Plus: soundscape hygiene (I can have silence, or music, or anything in between) and of course your own toilet.