5 ms·

boo fucking hoo. why is that a big deal? why isn't china on the banned list if there is oh so trade war with them? is binance an american company? if not then

boo fucking hoo. why is that a big deal? why isn't china on the banned list if there is oh so trade war with them? is binance an american company? if not then why should it care about american sanctions? wasn't a few days ago that coinpayments.net exited USA from payments because of ongoing political events or some other reason? so they literally put USA in the same list of sanctioned countries that USA made in the first place. lol

mrkramer 4y ago
Former Ethereum developer Virgil Griffith was sentenced to 5+ years in jail in US for evading sanctions on North Korea[1][2]. US is not joking. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/04/12/former-ethereum-developer-virgil-griffith-sentenced-to-5-years-in-prison-for-north-korea-trip/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/04/12/former-ethereum... [2] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-citizen-who-conspired-assist-north-korea-evading-sanctions-sentenced-over-five-years-and https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-citizen-who-conspired-assi...
- olalonde 4y ago
  He is a US citizen, big difference.
  - mrkramer 4y ago
    Binance.US has license in US for crypto trading and at the same time their parent company binance.com is evading US sanctions. License can be revoked by SEC and DOJ can order FBI to seize Binance.US
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      Technically binance.com is not the parent company of binance.us - they set this all up under the framework of the so-called 'Tai Chi' document. [1] CZ is on the board of the '.us' and '.us' licenses the brand and technology from '.com' With that in mind, the law takes a dim view of such shenanigans. I suspect that '.com's tacit acceptance of VPNs in serving US customers is probably more than enough for a judge to pierce the corporate veil. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/leaked-tai-chi-document-reveals-binances-elaborate-scheme-to-evade-bitcoin-regulators/?sh=6bc5382d2a92 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/l...
    - iancarroll 4y ago
      The SEC does not license crypto exchanges, and the DOJ cannot “order” anything on its own. The odds an active crypto exchange with legitimate U.S. customers would be immediately seized is about 0%. Sanctions and ownership are very complicated, so there is no point in pretending this is a simple case.
      - mrkramer 4y ago
        >The SEC does not license crypto exchanges, and the DOJ cannot “order” anything on its own. I'm not a lawyer so you explain me if you know it. But SEC is already investigating Binance over their token[0]. [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-06/us-probes-binance-over-token-that-is-now-world-s-fifth-largest https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-06/us-probes...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- eloisius 4y ago
  Griffith is an American citizen and he spoke at a crypto conference in Pyongyang. That’s a little more nuanced than the “US imprisoned an Ethereum developer.” You’d probably be guilty of evading sanctions if you participated commercially in any kind of industry conference in NK.
koheripbal 4y ago
This comment is so US-myopic. The US is not the only country with sanctions against Iran.
- mypastself 4y ago
  The article itself focuses exclusively on the U.S. sanctions and legal issues.
jeroenhd 4y ago
The difference between coinpayments.net not serving the USA and Binance ignoring sanctions is that one is a political statement, which everyone should be free to make, and the other is a crime. As a result, all of Binance's business in the USA and many of its allies might be blocked, its employees might find themselves see criminal charges or be barred from entering the USA (or many of its allies) and the company might find itself fined with its international assets pawned off by the government if it can't it won't pay the fine. If those assets include the cryptocurrency they bought on behalf of their users, that may mean that they can't actually their customers pulling back. Furthermore, the USA might decide to include Binance in its sanction list, making their customers liable for much of the same problems. Depending on how the government approaches this situation, this can crush Binance and a large part of the crypto industry with it. Nobody cares about the sanction list of coinpayments.net.
- d0mine 4y ago
  It is disturbing that many people do not see anything wrong that an elite from one country dictates to the whole world how to live (it has bigger guns/power but it is not right).
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    World police USA is a very popular point of view on HN, sadly.
  - the_lonely_road 4y ago
    “We” don’t dictate to the whole world how to live, that would be ludicrous as you just stated. We dictate the terms for behaving if you want to do business with us and our friends…just like the rest of the world. Most people don’t care about north koreas rules because they don’t want to do business in North Korea. Most of the world wants to do business with the west because it’s huge and rich and relatively unified in how you need to behave in broad strokes (obviously tons of differences in the details of implementations across regions). Foolish Americans keep ending up in Singapore jails because they don’t think their rules apply to them when they go there and find out the hard way that they do. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too because you disagree with the rules. If you want to do business with the west, you follow its rules or you stick to doing business with your own sphere of influence only.
arcticbull 4y ago
> boo fucking hoo. why is that a big deal? why isn't china on the banned list if there is oh so trade war with them? Completely irrelevant whataboutism. > is binance an american company? if not then why should it care about american sanctions? I suspect you haven't an understanding of the long arm of Uncle Sam. That's also not accurate, after all many countries in which they do business have sanctions against Iran. The EU for instance. The UN. [1,2] But beyond that, I think you'll find that US' view of its jurisdiction includes any businesses that do business with Americans. Even if they pretend not to do business with Americans with a '.us' entity set up under the 'Tai Chi' [3] framework to attempt to evade regulators. Especially if they have a long history of looking the other way over VPNs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran#UN_sanctions_against_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran#UN_sanc... [2] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions/iran/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions/iran/ [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/leaked-tai-chi-document-reveals-binances-elaborate-scheme-to-evade-bitcoin-regulators/?sh=23085d6c2a92 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/l...
- miracle2k 4y ago
  > That's also not accurate, after all many countries in which they do business have sanctions against Iran. The EU for instance. The UN. [2] These sanctions tend to be narrow, targeted and in general do not prohibit trade relationships. It's an entirely different ball game than the immoral US secondary sanction regime.
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Opinions on the morality of the US system are not really relevant to the outcome here. I don't particularly agree with sanctioning Iran either, but I'm sure not about to be on the wrong side of Uncle Sam over it and expect to get away scot-free.
  - mnd999 4y ago
    Ignoring the law because you don’t like it is not a sensible strategy.

mrkramer 4y ago

Former Ethereum developer Virgil Griffith was sentenced to 5+ years in jail in US for evading sanctions on North Korea[1][2]. US is not joking. [1] https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/04/12/former-ethereum-developer-virgil-griffith-sentenced-to-5-years-in-prison-for-north-korea-trip/ https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/04/12/former-ethereum... [2] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-citizen-who-conspired-assist-north-korea-evading-sanctions-sentenced-over-five-years-and https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-citizen-who-conspired-assi...

olalonde 4y ago
He is a US citizen, big difference.
- mrkramer 4y ago
  Binance.US has license in US for crypto trading and at the same time their parent company binance.com is evading US sanctions. License can be revoked by SEC and DOJ can order FBI to seize Binance.US
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Technically binance.com is not the parent company of binance.us - they set this all up under the framework of the so-called 'Tai Chi' document. [1] CZ is on the board of the '.us' and '.us' licenses the brand and technology from '.com' With that in mind, the law takes a dim view of such shenanigans. I suspect that '.com's tacit acceptance of VPNs in serving US customers is probably more than enough for a judge to pierce the corporate veil. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/leaked-tai-chi-document-reveals-binances-elaborate-scheme-to-evade-bitcoin-regulators/?sh=6bc5382d2a92 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/l...
  - iancarroll 4y ago
    The SEC does not license crypto exchanges, and the DOJ cannot “order” anything on its own. The odds an active crypto exchange with legitimate U.S. customers would be immediately seized is about 0%. Sanctions and ownership are very complicated, so there is no point in pretending this is a simple case.
    - mrkramer 4y ago
      >The SEC does not license crypto exchanges, and the DOJ cannot “order” anything on its own. I'm not a lawyer so you explain me if you know it. But SEC is already investigating Binance over their token[0]. [0] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-06/us-probes-binance-over-token-that-is-now-world-s-fifth-largest https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-06/us-probes...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
eloisius 4y ago
Griffith is an American citizen and he spoke at a crypto conference in Pyongyang. That’s a little more nuanced than the “US imprisoned an Ethereum developer.” You’d probably be guilty of evading sanctions if you participated commercially in any kind of industry conference in NK.

koheripbal 4y ago

This comment is so US-myopic. The US is not the only country with sanctions against Iran.

mypastself 4y ago
The article itself focuses exclusively on the U.S. sanctions and legal issues.

jeroenhd 4y ago

The difference between coinpayments.net not serving the USA and Binance ignoring sanctions is that one is a political statement, which everyone should be free to make, and the other is a crime. As a result, all of Binance's business in the USA and many of its allies might be blocked, its employees might find themselves see criminal charges or be barred from entering the USA (or many of its allies) and the company might find itself fined with its international assets pawned off by the government if it can't it won't pay the fine. If those assets include the cryptocurrency they bought on behalf of their users, that may mean that they can't actually their customers pulling back. Furthermore, the USA might decide to include Binance in its sanction list, making their customers liable for much of the same problems. Depending on how the government approaches this situation, this can crush Binance and a large part of the crypto industry with it. Nobody cares about the sanction list of coinpayments.net.

d0mine 4y ago
It is disturbing that many people do not see anything wrong that an elite from one country dictates to the whole world how to live (it has bigger guns/power but it is not right).
- Semaphor 4y ago
  World police USA is a very popular point of view on HN, sadly.
- the_lonely_road 4y ago
  “We” don’t dictate to the whole world how to live, that would be ludicrous as you just stated. We dictate the terms for behaving if you want to do business with us and our friends…just like the rest of the world. Most people don’t care about north koreas rules because they don’t want to do business in North Korea. Most of the world wants to do business with the west because it’s huge and rich and relatively unified in how you need to behave in broad strokes (obviously tons of differences in the details of implementations across regions). Foolish Americans keep ending up in Singapore jails because they don’t think their rules apply to them when they go there and find out the hard way that they do. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too because you disagree with the rules. If you want to do business with the west, you follow its rules or you stick to doing business with your own sphere of influence only.

arcticbull 4y ago

> boo fucking hoo. why is that a big deal? why isn't china on the banned list if there is oh so trade war with them? Completely irrelevant whataboutism. > is binance an american company? if not then why should it care about american sanctions? I suspect you haven't an understanding of the long arm of Uncle Sam. That's also not accurate, after all many countries in which they do business have sanctions against Iran. The EU for instance. The UN. [1,2] But beyond that, I think you'll find that US' view of its jurisdiction includes any businesses that do business with Americans. Even if they pretend not to do business with Americans with a '.us' entity set up under the 'Tai Chi' [3] framework to attempt to evade regulators. Especially if they have a long history of looking the other way over VPNs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran#UN_sanctions_against_Iran https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iran#UN_sanc... [2] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions/iran/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions/iran/ [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/leaked-tai-chi-document-reveals-binances-elaborate-scheme-to-evade-bitcoin-regulators/?sh=23085d6c2a92 https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2020/10/29/l...

miracle2k 4y ago
> That's also not accurate, after all many countries in which they do business have sanctions against Iran. The EU for instance. The UN. [2] These sanctions tend to be narrow, targeted and in general do not prohibit trade relationships. It's an entirely different ball game than the immoral US secondary sanction regime.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Opinions on the morality of the US system are not really relevant to the outcome here. I don't particularly agree with sanctioning Iran either, but I'm sure not about to be on the wrong side of Uncle Sam over it and expect to get away scot-free.
- mnd999 4y ago
  Ignoring the law because you don’t like it is not a sensible strategy.