4 ms·

We should not forget the backstory of this company. Max Bögel is the largest family-owned construction company in Germany. They build mainly infrastructure lik

We should not forget the backstory of this company. Max Bögel is the largest family-owned construction company in Germany. They build mainly infrastructure like roads, but where also involved in the Gigafactory in Grünheide in Germany. So, for them its a new business unit to build more infrastructure as a whole contractor. They can delivery everything, not like it is today in infrastructure projects where you have many different contractors providing different parts. So, they want to sell more concrete.

iggldiggl 4y ago
Looking at that page, it's also marketed as a fully turn-key solution with really everything (design, track construction, vehicles, signalling) provided by Bögl, so they presumably also hope to get some sort of lock-in effect where buyers of their system continue being dependent on them for any ongoing maintenance or future expansions, too. For how this can go wrong, look at the story of the Translohr (some sort of guided bus touted as a cheaper alternative to a conventional steel wheel tram), where the cities who bought that system subsequently had difficulties in persuading Alstom (who had bought up the tram part of the Translohr technology and eventually decided to sort of discontinue that system) to continue providing maintenance support or possibly even additional vehicles for the exisiting Translohr installations.
usr1106 4y ago
Interesting, lived in Germany for 30 years (although decades ago), but had never heard about them. Just wanted to say if the Transrapid consortium with the biggest German industry players and decades of public investment backing could not make it, I would not try again. This is not the SW business where any can start with some resources rented in the cloud. Of course sometimes it's just too early to be right, but wouldn't count on it. On the anecdotal side my first presentation in school around 1972 was about the German Maglev train project. It did not go as predicted, they sold one minor line to Shanghai decades later.
- mschuster91 4y ago
  Edmund Stoiber's infamous 10 minute speech killed the Transrapid in Munich. One of the OG German memes.
  - schroeding 4y ago
    For the uninitiated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7TboWvVERU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7TboWvVERU Context: The old munich airport in Riem was closed in the 90s. The new airport was very far away. Gadgetbahn Transrapid, running through tunnels and above the remains of the old olympia train line from '72, should save the day. MP Stoiber tries to explain the advantages. Translation: If you start from the main station in Munich with 10 minutes, without having to check in at the airport yet, then you basically start at the airport, at the main station in Munich you start your flight. 10 minutes. Take a look at the major airports. If you go to Heathrow in London or anywhere else, Charles de Gaulle in France or in Rome, if you look at the distances, if you look at Frankfurt, you will find that 10 minutes is all you need to find your gate in Frankfurt. If you start from the main station, you get into the main station[1], you take the Transrapid to Franz Josef Strauss[2] Airport in 10 minutes, then you practically start here, at the main station in Munich. Of course, this means that the main station basically grows closer to Bavaria, to the Bavarian cities, because that is obvious, because many lines from Bavaria converge at the main station. [1] "get into" like you would get into a bus, like if the station actually transports you to your destination [2] Bavarian MP and German Minister in the 60s/70s/80s, Munich Airport is named after him
    - mschuster91 4y ago
      Good lord, you actually managed to listen to and translate it without falling apart laughing? tips hat
      - usr1106 4y ago
        Munich has been considered one of the leading engineering centers in Germany for a long time. (Maybe Berlin has passed it now when you focus more on software startups.) How the heck have they had the worst politicians In Germany (well, probably only second worst in post fact age) for decades?
bluGill 4y ago
I wish they would sell standard systems. If it is just concrete we need more competition bringing costs down. Standard not only means you won't get an orphan system, but it also means you as a city can order from anyone. If the company you normally order from is busy with other orders you can buy from someone else when you have need. Standard means as a manufacture you can afford to invest in more jigs. Jigs are very expensive to make, but they decrease the cost of each whatever built with them. As such the more customers of the same thing the more jigs are worth investing in. Every change the jigs cannot handle is additional cost. (some jigs are adjustable, so within limits you could do things like non-standard wheel gauges - you still shouldn't but you could)
LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
Betongold (concrete gold)

iggldiggl 4y ago

Looking at that page, it's also marketed as a fully turn-key solution with really everything (design, track construction, vehicles, signalling) provided by Bögl, so they presumably also hope to get some sort of lock-in effect where buyers of their system continue being dependent on them for any ongoing maintenance or future expansions, too. For how this can go wrong, look at the story of the Translohr (some sort of guided bus touted as a cheaper alternative to a conventional steel wheel tram), where the cities who bought that system subsequently had difficulties in persuading Alstom (who had bought up the tram part of the Translohr technology and eventually decided to sort of discontinue that system) to continue providing maintenance support or possibly even additional vehicles for the exisiting Translohr installations.

usr1106 4y ago

Interesting, lived in Germany for 30 years (although decades ago), but had never heard about them. Just wanted to say if the Transrapid consortium with the biggest German industry players and decades of public investment backing could not make it, I would not try again. This is not the SW business where any can start with some resources rented in the cloud. Of course sometimes it's just too early to be right, but wouldn't count on it. On the anecdotal side my first presentation in school around 1972 was about the German Maglev train project. It did not go as predicted, they sold one minor line to Shanghai decades later.

mschuster91 4y ago
Edmund Stoiber's infamous 10 minute speech killed the Transrapid in Munich. One of the OG German memes.
- schroeding 4y ago
  For the uninitiated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7TboWvVERU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7TboWvVERU Context: The old munich airport in Riem was closed in the 90s. The new airport was very far away. Gadgetbahn Transrapid, running through tunnels and above the remains of the old olympia train line from '72, should save the day. MP Stoiber tries to explain the advantages. Translation: If you start from the main station in Munich with 10 minutes, without having to check in at the airport yet, then you basically start at the airport, at the main station in Munich you start your flight. 10 minutes. Take a look at the major airports. If you go to Heathrow in London or anywhere else, Charles de Gaulle in France or in Rome, if you look at the distances, if you look at Frankfurt, you will find that 10 minutes is all you need to find your gate in Frankfurt. If you start from the main station, you get into the main station[1], you take the Transrapid to Franz Josef Strauss[2] Airport in 10 minutes, then you practically start here, at the main station in Munich. Of course, this means that the main station basically grows closer to Bavaria, to the Bavarian cities, because that is obvious, because many lines from Bavaria converge at the main station. [1] "get into" like you would get into a bus, like if the station actually transports you to your destination [2] Bavarian MP and German Minister in the 60s/70s/80s, Munich Airport is named after him
  - mschuster91 4y ago
    Good lord, you actually managed to listen to and translate it without falling apart laughing? tips hat
    - usr1106 4y ago
      Munich has been considered one of the leading engineering centers in Germany for a long time. (Maybe Berlin has passed it now when you focus more on software startups.) How the heck have they had the worst politicians In Germany (well, probably only second worst in post fact age) for decades?

bluGill 4y ago

I wish they would sell standard systems. If it is just concrete we need more competition bringing costs down. Standard not only means you won't get an orphan system, but it also means you as a city can order from anyone. If the company you normally order from is busy with other orders you can buy from someone else when you have need. Standard means as a manufacture you can afford to invest in more jigs. Jigs are very expensive to make, but they decrease the cost of each whatever built with them. As such the more customers of the same thing the more jigs are worth investing in. Every change the jigs cannot handle is additional cost. (some jigs are adjustable, so within limits you could do things like non-standard wheel gauges - you still shouldn't but you could)

LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago

Betongold (concrete gold)