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You can't be friends with a country which commits joining a military alliance which puts your ports and navy under the control of your enemies. You seriously e

You can't be friends with a country which commits joining a military alliance which puts your ports and navy under the control of your enemies. You seriously expect Russia to have its military and merchant ports in Crimea under NATO control as a sign of "friendship"? What kind of crack do you have in your pipe? If you want to be fair then you might as well have Crimea revert to Turkey as it was part of Ottoman Empire in the past, or perhaps the Tatars can have it back if you want. You prefer to view the world through the reality distortion field of the Western media controlled by the military-pharmaceutical-financial industrial complex. Fine. Have it you way.

_kbh_ 4y ago
> You can't be friends with a country which commits joining a military alliance which puts your ports and navy under the control of your enemies. It's a defensive alliance, one that is designed to stop Russia doing exactly what its doing now. Russia does not get to decide what alliances its neighbours join. Russia does not get to invade, rape and slaughter innocent civilians just because it wants to. Ukraine and Russia don't have to be friends just because they are neighbours.
- vfclists 4y ago
  Yeah right. Read this NYT article about Ihor Kolomoisky, the guy allegedly behind Zelenskyy's rise to power and do some serious thinking. https://web.archive.org/web/20191123115230/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/13/world/europe/ukraine-ihor-kolomoisky-russia.html https://web.archive.org/web/20191123115230/https://www.nytim...
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    I’m not sure what this has to do with Russias invasion of Ukraine and repeated countless war crimes they seem unable to stop committing but okay.
    - vfclists 4y ago
      Perhaps you should read the article again and again and again. Zelenskyy was Holomoisky's protege and if he was calling for better relations with Russia years ago then perhaps Zelenskyy's regime should have listened, rather than follow the path which has precipitated this invasion by Russia.
      - _kbh_ 4y ago
        I dont know why you think this war would have been avoided with 'better relations' with Russia, the only way that this would be avoided would have been if Ukraine became a vassal stake of Russia like Belarus is right now.
        vfclists 4y ago
        If you want to put this way how is Ukraine being a a vassal state of Russia that different from Germany being a vassal state of the US by submitting to sanctions blocking the opening of NordStream II which the Germans were looking forward to opening?
        _kbh_ 4y ago
        Perhaps Germany thinks that economically hurting Russia is more important than finishing the pipeline?. There is not an option of vassal state of America or Russia. The choices are living under what is at least trying to be a democracy versus being a slave state to Russia.
        vfclists 4y ago
        > Perhaps Germany thinks that economically hurting Russia is more important than finishing the pipeline? Sounds like the guy holding a hammer before another guy and saying "I know you think I'm being cruel to you, but believe me when I say this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" and proceeds to strike how own shin hard with the hammer. > The choices are living under what is at least trying to be a democracy versus being a slave state to Russia. Oh there. That "democracy" word. Like how America waged long destructive wars in order to bring "democracy" to Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan resulting in 100s of thousands if not millions of deaths. So now we are going to have a long war in the Ukraine for "democracy" which is nothing more than having gay pride parades. America is that wonderful "democracy" where monthly insulin treatments cost hundreds of dollars, and the walking wounded in vehicle accidents would rather make their way to the hospital on their own rather than have an nearby ambulance take them for fear of the $3000 bills they may be hit with for a journey less than 30 minutes. The wonderful democracy when many families do not even have $400 of savings to weather a medical emergency. I would say low-income Americans are being terrorised with fear of destitution by the own "democratic" Govt, inspite of the US being the wealthiest country in the world. There is as much democracy in Ukraine as there is in Russia. I believe Ukraine's ruling regime ranked lowest on the corruption index, and now its democratic leaders are the toast of the free world for standing against Russia. A free world where bodily autonomy was rudely sacrificed for the sake of ineffectual Covid vaccines. I could go on and on about the flaws of the "so-called" free world but you would find that boring. Go read this - https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/06/20/thirty-years-of-u.s.-policy-toward-russia-can-vicious-circle-be-broken-pub-79323 https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/06/20/thirty-years-of-u.s...
- vfclists 4y ago
  > It's a defensive alliance, one that is designed to stop Russia doing exactly what its doing now. NATO hasn't been a defensive alliance since the fall of the Soviet Union. Its role in the two Iraq wars, Libya and in the wars in the Balkans wars are proof that is not a defensive alliance. It has become a tool for US military hegemony. > Russia does not get to invade, rape and slaughter innocent civilians just because it wants to. Bogus bullshit. The idea that the Russian military see the rape and slaughter of innocent civilians as the way to get the cooperation and support of a population's which it sees as part of its Federation is nonsensical.
konschubert 4y ago
> You prefer to view the world through the reality distortion field of the Western media controlled by the military-pharmaceutical-financial industrial complex. Fine. Have it you way. You think this is deep, but this is r/iam14andthisisdeep You think you are free-thinking, but are spouting another kind of group-think and Russian propaganda. The truth isn't always in the middle between NYT and RT. It's not that simple.

_kbh_ 4y ago

> You can't be friends with a country which commits joining a military alliance which puts your ports and navy under the control of your enemies. It's a defensive alliance, one that is designed to stop Russia doing exactly what its doing now. Russia does not get to decide what alliances its neighbours join. Russia does not get to invade, rape and slaughter innocent civilians just because it wants to. Ukraine and Russia don't have to be friends just because they are neighbours.

vfclists 4y ago
Yeah right. Read this NYT article about Ihor Kolomoisky, the guy allegedly behind Zelenskyy's rise to power and do some serious thinking. https://web.archive.org/web/20191123115230/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/13/world/europe/ukraine-ihor-kolomoisky-russia.html https://web.archive.org/web/20191123115230/https://www.nytim...
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  I’m not sure what this has to do with Russias invasion of Ukraine and repeated countless war crimes they seem unable to stop committing but okay.
  - vfclists 4y ago
    Perhaps you should read the article again and again and again. Zelenskyy was Holomoisky's protege and if he was calling for better relations with Russia years ago then perhaps Zelenskyy's regime should have listened, rather than follow the path which has precipitated this invasion by Russia.
    - _kbh_ 4y ago
      I dont know why you think this war would have been avoided with 'better relations' with Russia, the only way that this would be avoided would have been if Ukraine became a vassal stake of Russia like Belarus is right now.
      - vfclists 4y ago
        If you want to put this way how is Ukraine being a a vassal state of Russia that different from Germany being a vassal state of the US by submitting to sanctions blocking the opening of NordStream II which the Germans were looking forward to opening?
        _kbh_ 4y ago
        Perhaps Germany thinks that economically hurting Russia is more important than finishing the pipeline?. There is not an option of vassal state of America or Russia. The choices are living under what is at least trying to be a democracy versus being a slave state to Russia.
        vfclists 4y ago
        > Perhaps Germany thinks that economically hurting Russia is more important than finishing the pipeline? Sounds like the guy holding a hammer before another guy and saying "I know you think I'm being cruel to you, but believe me when I say this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" and proceeds to strike how own shin hard with the hammer. > The choices are living under what is at least trying to be a democracy versus being a slave state to Russia. Oh there. That "democracy" word. Like how America waged long destructive wars in order to bring "democracy" to Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan resulting in 100s of thousands if not millions of deaths. So now we are going to have a long war in the Ukraine for "democracy" which is nothing more than having gay pride parades. America is that wonderful "democracy" where monthly insulin treatments cost hundreds of dollars, and the walking wounded in vehicle accidents would rather make their way to the hospital on their own rather than have an nearby ambulance take them for fear of the $3000 bills they may be hit with for a journey less than 30 minutes. The wonderful democracy when many families do not even have $400 of savings to weather a medical emergency. I would say low-income Americans are being terrorised with fear of destitution by the own "democratic" Govt, inspite of the US being the wealthiest country in the world. There is as much democracy in Ukraine as there is in Russia. I believe Ukraine's ruling regime ranked lowest on the corruption index, and now its democratic leaders are the toast of the free world for standing against Russia. A free world where bodily autonomy was rudely sacrificed for the sake of ineffectual Covid vaccines. I could go on and on about the flaws of the "so-called" free world but you would find that boring. Go read this - https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/06/20/thirty-years-of-u.s.-policy-toward-russia-can-vicious-circle-be-broken-pub-79323 https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/06/20/thirty-years-of-u.s...
vfclists 4y ago
> It's a defensive alliance, one that is designed to stop Russia doing exactly what its doing now. NATO hasn't been a defensive alliance since the fall of the Soviet Union. Its role in the two Iraq wars, Libya and in the wars in the Balkans wars are proof that is not a defensive alliance. It has become a tool for US military hegemony. > Russia does not get to invade, rape and slaughter innocent civilians just because it wants to. Bogus bullshit. The idea that the Russian military see the rape and slaughter of innocent civilians as the way to get the cooperation and support of a population's which it sees as part of its Federation is nonsensical.

konschubert 4y ago

> You prefer to view the world through the reality distortion field of the Western media controlled by the military-pharmaceutical-financial industrial complex. Fine. Have it you way. You think this is deep, but this is r/iam14andthisisdeep You think you are free-thinking, but are spouting another kind of group-think and Russian propaganda. The truth isn't always in the middle between NYT and RT. It's not that simple.