3 ms·

Are you sure about that? I’m sure that you probably could find small but significant (in the statistical sense) differences of intelligence between races and ge

by Ma8ee 4y ago

Are you sure about that? I’m sure that you probably could find small but significant (in the statistical sense) differences of intelligence between races and genders if you tried hard enough. It would be strange otherwise. Would that knowledge make the world a better or worse place in the current political climate? What would your thoughts be about the motivation behind that research? Do you really think it would be honest, unbiased search for truth?

zozbot234 4y ago
The "current political climate" around race and gender is so thoroughly screwed up that it's hard to think of any real research activity that might make it actually worse. And if you care about e.g. educational outcomes across races and/or genders (which plenty of people do, seeing as these are highly relevant to broader social goals!), the question you refer to is in fact relevant-- if only to conclusively rule out larger differences as a possible factor, and place the research spotlight on other things-- such as e.g. pervasive, systemic dysfunction within educational institutions themselves.
Jensson 4y ago
Why doesn't good people fund good science where they get all these numbers for difference in intelligence etc? Currently the only sources for those numbers comes from biased people, so getting the real numbers out there should be a win and reduce racism, no? Because without those numbers people will view the difference as much bigger than they are, that is how bias works. You fight bias with real numbers and statistics, for example whenever biased people talk about criminal immigrants we point to statistics showing that immigrants aren't very criminal, I don't see why this situation is different.
- Ma8ee 4y ago
  > You fight bias with real numbers and statistics, I really wish that was the case. Say that the research say that group A is slightly more intelligent than group B, but that the variation between each group is much larger than the small difference between the averages. The only thing that will be repeated ad nausea, and used to justify all sorts of inequality, is group A is more intelligent than group B. > for example whenever biased people talk about criminal immigrants we point to statistics showing that immigrants aren't very criminal In my country immigrants are about twice as likely as the native population to have a criminal record. A lot of that can be explained by bias among the police and courts, and by social class. What people remember is TWICE as criminal, which rapidly becomes “most of them are criminals”, not that 97% don’t have any criminal record (compared to 98.5).
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    People can and will make up all sorts of claims, they don't need formal research as an excuse. So having reliable information about these things is still preferable to not having it. Then a ludicrous claim like "most people in X group are criminals" can at least be debunked easily.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  Part of the problem is that the question itself is not very sensible in the first place. But if you want to ask more complex questions, you first need to conclusively set aside simpler ones, even ones that are so ludicrous as to only be useful as a convenient straw man. So this is very much a worthwhile activity.

by Ma8ee 4y ago

zozbot234 4y ago

The "current political climate" around race and gender is so thoroughly screwed up that it's hard to think of any real research activity that might make it actually worse. And if you care about e.g. educational outcomes across races and/or genders (which plenty of people do, seeing as these are highly relevant to broader social goals!), the question you refer to is in fact relevant-- if only to conclusively rule out larger differences as a possible factor, and place the research spotlight on other things-- such as e.g. pervasive, systemic dysfunction within educational institutions themselves.

Jensson 4y ago

Why doesn't good people fund good science where they get all these numbers for difference in intelligence etc? Currently the only sources for those numbers comes from biased people, so getting the real numbers out there should be a win and reduce racism, no? Because without those numbers people will view the difference as much bigger than they are, that is how bias works. You fight bias with real numbers and statistics, for example whenever biased people talk about criminal immigrants we point to statistics showing that immigrants aren't very criminal, I don't see why this situation is different.

Ma8ee 4y ago
> You fight bias with real numbers and statistics, I really wish that was the case. Say that the research say that group A is slightly more intelligent than group B, but that the variation between each group is much larger than the small difference between the averages. The only thing that will be repeated ad nausea, and used to justify all sorts of inequality, is group A is more intelligent than group B. > for example whenever biased people talk about criminal immigrants we point to statistics showing that immigrants aren't very criminal In my country immigrants are about twice as likely as the native population to have a criminal record. A lot of that can be explained by bias among the police and courts, and by social class. What people remember is TWICE as criminal, which rapidly becomes “most of them are criminals”, not that 97% don’t have any criminal record (compared to 98.5).
- zozbot234 4y ago
  People can and will make up all sorts of claims, they don't need formal research as an excuse. So having reliable information about these things is still preferable to not having it. Then a ludicrous claim like "most people in X group are criminals" can at least be debunked easily.
zozbot234 4y ago
Part of the problem is that the question itself is not very sensible in the first place. But if you want to ask more complex questions, you first need to conclusively set aside simpler ones, even ones that are so ludicrous as to only be useful as a convenient straw man. So this is very much a worthwhile activity.