4 ms·

> It's a form of systematic oppression. Against who? Parody artists? Weird Al has a parody along the same lines on his 2014 album and I'm not aware of any outr

> It's a form of systematic oppression. Against who? Parody artists? Weird Al has a parody along the same lines on his 2014 album and I'm not aware of any outrage. If your biggest concern in life is being "cancelled" (a dramatic term for being criticized on the internet), I think that says more about you and your intolerance for free speech, than anyone else.

jollybean 4y ago
Being 'cancelled' in academia and entertainment is a very real thing that happens to artists, but more notably, as I mentioned, suppresses tons of content across the board that won't even get pitched otherwise. While some people do overstate it, it's definitely real. Those who diminish it are the fascists of our generation. Sean Penn (far left activist) and Conan O'Brien (staunch centre left advocate, public supporter of Hillary Clinton etc.) publicly decried the problem as 'Stalinist' - strong words. In their experience, in private conversation in Hollywood people are freaked out about the oppression, while a few virtue signal here and there publicly while towing the party line, everyone is thinks it's nuts. Stephen Pinker (staunch centre-left, respected academic) has spoken out about this, and faced a 'cancellation' of his own for merely suggesting publicly that the issue with policing in America is more a general problem as opposed to specifically a racial problem. The 'mob' came for him and tried to have his participation on various boards 'cancelled'. A long list of thinkers, including the likes of Chomsky himself, had to come out and publicly admonish the 'cancellers' (mostly on the far left) for the systematic problem. It's without modern precedent. There's a 'civil war' between generations at the NYT (Editorial) about what constitutes 'fair'. The 'outrage mob' has a measurable effect on academia and especially creative culture. Producers just don't want to risk a project being annulled, and so they go out of their way to 'sanitize' efforts left and right. The Wachowski sisters (then brothers) were 'condemned' for 'Cloud Atlas' where they dared to have people of different classes, genders and races, play various characters - frankly in attempt to display the common humanity within all of us (not some arbitrary bit of ugly humour) - though the outrage wasn't enough to hurt them, it's become a 'no go zone' for content in 2022. Actors playing characters of different source origin i.e. someone 'non Japanese' playing a character from Anime, actors playing historical figures, actors playing arbitrary fictional characters of questionable origin etc. etc. - it's all a minefield, scaring producers away from anything. 30 Rock, made by your typically socially progressive groups, had several episodes pulled. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Go ahead and re-watch 'Superbad' - it could not be made today, it wouldn't even get pitched. Every scene is 'off message' - arbitrary bits about crude porn, jokes involving trans people, 'period' gags. It was always a bit 'outrageous' but that kind of humour will risk too much ire and so it's out. Even the actors just wouldn't want to risk being on the wrong side - look at Seth Rogen's most recent work, it's like a 180 degree shift. Institutional entities that have been around for some time, notably 'make money' and notably have their own production ability - South Park and Family Guy, basically get a free pass. But most people in entertainment and academia do not have power like 'Dave Chapelle' or institutional protection like 'South Park' or respect of 'Stephen Pinker' - so they 'stay on message' and 'away from controversy' or else the script does not get approved. And FYI even the people turning it away aren't ideological about it 'it's just business' and an accommodation of the outrage mob, fickle advertisers etc.. The 'outraged' a fairly small group, with a sizeable group of allies particularly among Gen Z, which can be noted in the continuous public furor over ostensibly 'terrible person', JK Rowling. The way they go on about here is medieval. While I don't think our campuses are overtly hostile, the issue does linger.
- eesmith 4y ago
  > A long list of thinkers, including the likes of Chomsky himself, had to come out and publicly admonish the 'cancellers' (mostly on the far left) for the systematic problem. Please re-examine what right-wing cancellation means. School administrators leaving because of right-wing pressure that "diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives" = "CRT" = "toxic propaganda" = ideological poison" is cancelling by the right, yes? https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-dei-crt-schools-parents https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-dei-crt-schools-p... ] Parents Defending Education has created “indoctrination maps” tracking everything from a district celebrating “Black Lives Matter week” to one that allows students to watch CNN Student News, while the Atlanta-based Education Veritas and Kahaian’s Protect Student Health Georgia provide portals for anonymously reporting educators supposedly sympathetic to CRT, DEI and other so-called controversial learning concepts. ... ] And with that effort came a renewed vilification of CRT, a four-decade-old theory that, contrary to its opponents’ accusations, is rarely if ever taught in K-12 public school systems (it typically is taught in graduate-level college and law school courses). ... ] Using local media coverage and lawsuits, ProPublica has identified at least 14 public school employees across the country, six of them Black, who were chased out in part by anti-CRT efforts in 2021. Sure sounds like right-wing cancel culture to me. Odds are, you haven't heard of them. All the examples you gave were of famous people. But Steven Pinker is not cancelled. Sean Penn is not cancelled. JK Rowling is not cancelled. Not in any meaningful sense. Operatively speaking, "cancel culture" seem to mean "rich and powerful who don't like to be criticized". And it's pretty easy to show - define "cancel culture", then see how well it applies to many right-wing actions, like the Southern Baptist Convention's 8 year boycott of Disney, or the broad right-wing opposition to Kaepernick's kneel, which was much less than the recent Supreme Court judgement concerning a "quiet" prayer at the 50-yard line.
  - jollybean 4y ago
    You're mixing streams. Yes, I'm very aware of the debates surrounding CRT and public furor. Nobody is is getting 'cancelled' due to 'CRT' - rather, it's a subject that is very rightly controversial. 'CRT' is an interesting concept, which is ultimately a bit post modern, and can be used to propagate misinformation as much as it can be a tool of enlightenment. For example 'CRT' has is the ideology used to get rid of AP classes in high school. Does that seem reasonable? I think many would disagree with the policy. It's inherently controversial. But that aside - nobody is 'cancelled' over it. Careers are not ruined. Authors, creative people, academics - they are all free to publish books and papers on the subject. Nobody is pulling books from the shelf because it's about 'CRT'. "Operatively speaking, "cancel culture" seem to mean "rich and powerful who don't like to be criticized"." No - this is completely false. The vast focus of 'cancel culture' has been focused on those who transgress values of ostensible social justice. The best examples would be Dave Chapelle on Netflix, or, Kevin Hart's cancellation of Oscar Hosting, or Comedians pulling jokes on campus. The 'outrage' is from the young, the left. Colin Kaepernick can publish whatever book he wants, attend whatever parade he wants, make any kind of speech he wants, and none of it would be controversial. Disney is not pulling content because of what Floridians think about this or that, however, they absolutely are pulling and shaping content based on what social justice ideologues believe.

jollybean 4y ago

Being 'cancelled' in academia and entertainment is a very real thing that happens to artists, but more notably, as I mentioned, suppresses tons of content across the board that won't even get pitched otherwise. While some people do overstate it, it's definitely real. Those who diminish it are the fascists of our generation. Sean Penn (far left activist) and Conan O'Brien (staunch centre left advocate, public supporter of Hillary Clinton etc.) publicly decried the problem as 'Stalinist' - strong words. In their experience, in private conversation in Hollywood people are freaked out about the oppression, while a few virtue signal here and there publicly while towing the party line, everyone is thinks it's nuts. Stephen Pinker (staunch centre-left, respected academic) has spoken out about this, and faced a 'cancellation' of his own for merely suggesting publicly that the issue with policing in America is more a general problem as opposed to specifically a racial problem. The 'mob' came for him and tried to have his participation on various boards 'cancelled'. A long list of thinkers, including the likes of Chomsky himself, had to come out and publicly admonish the 'cancellers' (mostly on the far left) for the systematic problem. It's without modern precedent. There's a 'civil war' between generations at the NYT (Editorial) about what constitutes 'fair'. The 'outrage mob' has a measurable effect on academia and especially creative culture. Producers just don't want to risk a project being annulled, and so they go out of their way to 'sanitize' efforts left and right. The Wachowski sisters (then brothers) were 'condemned' for 'Cloud Atlas' where they dared to have people of different classes, genders and races, play various characters - frankly in attempt to display the common humanity within all of us (not some arbitrary bit of ugly humour) - though the outrage wasn't enough to hurt them, it's become a 'no go zone' for content in 2022. Actors playing characters of different source origin i.e. someone 'non Japanese' playing a character from Anime, actors playing historical figures, actors playing arbitrary fictional characters of questionable origin etc. etc. - it's all a minefield, scaring producers away from anything. 30 Rock, made by your typically socially progressive groups, had several episodes pulled. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Go ahead and re-watch 'Superbad' - it could not be made today, it wouldn't even get pitched. Every scene is 'off message' - arbitrary bits about crude porn, jokes involving trans people, 'period' gags. It was always a bit 'outrageous' but that kind of humour will risk too much ire and so it's out. Even the actors just wouldn't want to risk being on the wrong side - look at Seth Rogen's most recent work, it's like a 180 degree shift. Institutional entities that have been around for some time, notably 'make money' and notably have their own production ability - South Park and Family Guy, basically get a free pass. But most people in entertainment and academia do not have power like 'Dave Chapelle' or institutional protection like 'South Park' or respect of 'Stephen Pinker' - so they 'stay on message' and 'away from controversy' or else the script does not get approved. And FYI even the people turning it away aren't ideological about it 'it's just business' and an accommodation of the outrage mob, fickle advertisers etc.. The 'outraged' a fairly small group, with a sizeable group of allies particularly among Gen Z, which can be noted in the continuous public furor over ostensibly 'terrible person', JK Rowling. The way they go on about here is medieval. While I don't think our campuses are overtly hostile, the issue does linger.

eesmith 4y ago
> A long list of thinkers, including the likes of Chomsky himself, had to come out and publicly admonish the 'cancellers' (mostly on the far left) for the systematic problem. Please re-examine what right-wing cancellation means. School administrators leaving because of right-wing pressure that "diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives" = "CRT" = "toxic propaganda" = ideological poison" is cancelling by the right, yes? https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-dei-crt-schools-parents https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-dei-crt-schools-p... ] Parents Defending Education has created “indoctrination maps” tracking everything from a district celebrating “Black Lives Matter week” to one that allows students to watch CNN Student News, while the Atlanta-based Education Veritas and Kahaian’s Protect Student Health Georgia provide portals for anonymously reporting educators supposedly sympathetic to CRT, DEI and other so-called controversial learning concepts. ... ] And with that effort came a renewed vilification of CRT, a four-decade-old theory that, contrary to its opponents’ accusations, is rarely if ever taught in K-12 public school systems (it typically is taught in graduate-level college and law school courses). ... ] Using local media coverage and lawsuits, ProPublica has identified at least 14 public school employees across the country, six of them Black, who were chased out in part by anti-CRT efforts in 2021. Sure sounds like right-wing cancel culture to me. Odds are, you haven't heard of them. All the examples you gave were of famous people. But Steven Pinker is not cancelled. Sean Penn is not cancelled. JK Rowling is not cancelled. Not in any meaningful sense. Operatively speaking, "cancel culture" seem to mean "rich and powerful who don't like to be criticized". And it's pretty easy to show - define "cancel culture", then see how well it applies to many right-wing actions, like the Southern Baptist Convention's 8 year boycott of Disney, or the broad right-wing opposition to Kaepernick's kneel, which was much less than the recent Supreme Court judgement concerning a "quiet" prayer at the 50-yard line.
- jollybean 4y ago
  You're mixing streams. Yes, I'm very aware of the debates surrounding CRT and public furor. Nobody is is getting 'cancelled' due to 'CRT' - rather, it's a subject that is very rightly controversial. 'CRT' is an interesting concept, which is ultimately a bit post modern, and can be used to propagate misinformation as much as it can be a tool of enlightenment. For example 'CRT' has is the ideology used to get rid of AP classes in high school. Does that seem reasonable? I think many would disagree with the policy. It's inherently controversial. But that aside - nobody is 'cancelled' over it. Careers are not ruined. Authors, creative people, academics - they are all free to publish books and papers on the subject. Nobody is pulling books from the shelf because it's about 'CRT'. "Operatively speaking, "cancel culture" seem to mean "rich and powerful who don't like to be criticized"." No - this is completely false. The vast focus of 'cancel culture' has been focused on those who transgress values of ostensible social justice. The best examples would be Dave Chapelle on Netflix, or, Kevin Hart's cancellation of Oscar Hosting, or Comedians pulling jokes on campus. The 'outrage' is from the young, the left. Colin Kaepernick can publish whatever book he wants, attend whatever parade he wants, make any kind of speech he wants, and none of it would be controversial. Disney is not pulling content because of what Floridians think about this or that, however, they absolutely are pulling and shaping content based on what social justice ideologues believe.