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> What I call zazen is not developing concentration by stages and so on. It is simply the Awakened One's own easy and joyful practice, it is realized-practice w

> What I call zazen is not developing concentration by stages and so on. It is simply the Awakened One's own easy and joyful practice, it is realized-practice within already manifest enlightenment. It is the display of complete reality. Traps and cages spring open. Grasping the heart of this, you are the dragon who has reached his waters, the tiger resting in her mountains. Understand that right here is the display of Vast Reality and then dullness and mental wandering have no place to arise. https://wwzc.org/dharma-text/fukanzazengi-how-everyone-can-sit https://wwzc.org/dharma-text/fukanzazengi-how-everyone-can-s... Returning to the joyful ease of a child, not putting distinctions and discriminations on play, or worrying about the next thing or even doing the current thing well, is what we train by sitting zazen in Zen Buddhism

tuxie_ 4y ago
> not putting distinctions and discriminations on play Honestly that stands out for me from your comment. What do you mean? It does not follow logically, at least for me, from the rest of the things you mention.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  Zazen is about sitting without making distinctions. If a good feeling arises, we treat it the same as a bad feeling, we just let it arise and pass without judging it. Same for distinguishing between self and other, etc. Zazen is a practise for learning how to cultivate a mind that does not attach to discriminations or distinctions between different mental or physical states or objects. We put distinctions on the world because we think it's necessary to be able to actually live here, but actually if you let go of distinctions you will find that life lives on as normal and you still somehow know what to do but in a much more liberated way. "Not putting distinctions and discriminations on play" means to play without making distinctions or discriminations, such as: "am I playing right?", "am I being too loud?", "is this a good use of my time?", "could I be doing something more productive?", etc. Most adults cannot play without attaching to those questions and being bothered by them. One way to learn to not attach to those questions is to practise zazen
  - Dudeman112 4y ago
    >We put distinctions on the world because we think it's necessary to be able to actually live here You'll find that living on the world without distinctions in some places will get you shot or eaten by wildlife. Which does make your life in the world a wee shorter, yes... Although at that point I guess someone truly enlightened wouldn't mind it
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      Have you tried it? If you did you will realise that actually it isn't our attachment to distinctions that propels us, but there is an automatic animal decision making process before we rationalise about it. We actually do this a lot but we just don't realise it, afterwards we think that our rational sense of "I" is in the driving seat but really it is a bit different. As I said, it's hard to believe that you could live a life like that, but I promise you that after dropping distinctions you will handle the person shouting at you or the bear attacking you far more effectively than you would if you were rationally deliberating over it. But you'll have to try it to believe me perhaps, I was surprised too. Part of the reason why enlightenment is a long and difficult process is because we are so convinced that we need to hold onto things to keep surviving. Some people are so shocked by the realisation that they even commit suicide, particularly if done in an unsafe setting without support.
      - Dudeman112 4y ago
        I don't think deliberate thoughts are the best tools for all circumstances. That's not my point Actually getting rid of distinctions requires an overwriting of the non-deliberate thought processes too. You won't "handle" the person shouting at you or the bear attacking you more effectively, you won't handle anything at all. You'll just be the cognitive equivalent of a rock, but in human flesh You seem to be using "distinctions" as a synonym for deliberate thought (I could be wrong, of course)
        bowsamic 4y ago
        Yes, by distinctions I mean rational deliberate ones that arise from attachments to ideas that we have about the world. For example the idea that I am me and you are you. We are attached to this idea and act in a non-optimal way due to it. Being before that mind is called "prajna" or wisdom in Buddhism, prajnaparamita being the "perfection of wisdom". I don't mean the distinctions made by our material condition such as hunger or flight and fight, I mean the reactions to those things. It is the Buddha's parable of the two arrows: the first arrow (pain) is unavoidable, however we also then take on an unecessary second arrow (negative emotional reaction to pain) that is totally avoidable. I'm talking about the second part. Letting go of our conscious attachment to distinctions and discriminations we can play like children again

tuxie_ 4y ago

> not putting distinctions and discriminations on play Honestly that stands out for me from your comment. What do you mean? It does not follow logically, at least for me, from the rest of the things you mention.

bowsamic 4y ago
Zazen is about sitting without making distinctions. If a good feeling arises, we treat it the same as a bad feeling, we just let it arise and pass without judging it. Same for distinguishing between self and other, etc. Zazen is a practise for learning how to cultivate a mind that does not attach to discriminations or distinctions between different mental or physical states or objects. We put distinctions on the world because we think it's necessary to be able to actually live here, but actually if you let go of distinctions you will find that life lives on as normal and you still somehow know what to do but in a much more liberated way. "Not putting distinctions and discriminations on play" means to play without making distinctions or discriminations, such as: "am I playing right?", "am I being too loud?", "is this a good use of my time?", "could I be doing something more productive?", etc. Most adults cannot play without attaching to those questions and being bothered by them. One way to learn to not attach to those questions is to practise zazen
- Dudeman112 4y ago
  >We put distinctions on the world because we think it's necessary to be able to actually live here You'll find that living on the world without distinctions in some places will get you shot or eaten by wildlife. Which does make your life in the world a wee shorter, yes... Although at that point I guess someone truly enlightened wouldn't mind it
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    Have you tried it? If you did you will realise that actually it isn't our attachment to distinctions that propels us, but there is an automatic animal decision making process before we rationalise about it. We actually do this a lot but we just don't realise it, afterwards we think that our rational sense of "I" is in the driving seat but really it is a bit different. As I said, it's hard to believe that you could live a life like that, but I promise you that after dropping distinctions you will handle the person shouting at you or the bear attacking you far more effectively than you would if you were rationally deliberating over it. But you'll have to try it to believe me perhaps, I was surprised too. Part of the reason why enlightenment is a long and difficult process is because we are so convinced that we need to hold onto things to keep surviving. Some people are so shocked by the realisation that they even commit suicide, particularly if done in an unsafe setting without support.
    - Dudeman112 4y ago
      I don't think deliberate thoughts are the best tools for all circumstances. That's not my point Actually getting rid of distinctions requires an overwriting of the non-deliberate thought processes too. You won't "handle" the person shouting at you or the bear attacking you more effectively, you won't handle anything at all. You'll just be the cognitive equivalent of a rock, but in human flesh You seem to be using "distinctions" as a synonym for deliberate thought (I could be wrong, of course)
      - bowsamic 4y ago
        Yes, by distinctions I mean rational deliberate ones that arise from attachments to ideas that we have about the world. For example the idea that I am me and you are you. We are attached to this idea and act in a non-optimal way due to it. Being before that mind is called "prajna" or wisdom in Buddhism, prajnaparamita being the "perfection of wisdom". I don't mean the distinctions made by our material condition such as hunger or flight and fight, I mean the reactions to those things. It is the Buddha's parable of the two arrows: the first arrow (pain) is unavoidable, however we also then take on an unecessary second arrow (negative emotional reaction to pain) that is totally avoidable. I'm talking about the second part. Letting go of our conscious attachment to distinctions and discriminations we can play like children again