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Here's something that makes me angry: We (as in Europe) were in a refugee crisis for a long time. And yet, many countries washed their hands clean of it - with

by zwaps 4y ago

Here's something that makes me angry: We (as in Europe) were in a refugee crisis for a long time. And yet, many countries washed their hands clean of it - with the most demeaning and undignified rhetoric. For instance, the majority of Polish citizens have not shown a single bit of decency towards refugees from Syria and Iraq - for decades. Almost no refugee was allowed in, and other were treated like subhumans. Now there is a sudden sympathy for refugees - and we ALL know the true reason for it: They are white Christians. If you'd listen to Syrians, they'd tell you the same horrible stories about war. But a good portion of Europe, especially the portion of Europe that suddenly has discovered its morality, did not listen. The hypocrisy of it all makes me angry - and I am not particularly interested in treating this war as any more - or any less - horrible than the last one.

Swenrekcah 4y ago
This is just human nature 101. We care more about things that happen closer to us than far away, and more about people we can relate better with than people we relate worse with. There’s no point in being mad at people housing Ukrainians for not having housed Syrians.
jltsiren 4y ago
> Now there is a sudden sympathy for refugees - and we ALL know the true reason for it: They are white Christians. That explanation does not make sense. We are talking about Europe, after all, where xenophobia routinely targets white European Christians, because their language / culture / nationality / brand of Christianity is different. Ukrainian refugees receive different treatment, because they are fleeing a mutual enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, or something like that. It's not a matter of right and wrong or some abstract principles but that of self-interest. People in East Europe generally consider the current Russian regime a threat, and they are willing to help those facing the threat.
- morsch 4y ago
  Sure, white European Christians, widely known to be among the primary recipients of xenophobia in Europe.
  - jltsiren 4y ago
    What do you think caused the World Wars? Or, to give a more recent example, consider the discrimination East Europeans faced after their countries joined the EU and many of them immigrated to the West. Europe is not the US. People from other European countries (and from many traditional minorities in the same country) are obviously different as soon as they start speaking. Many Europeans live outside their home country and most visit other European countries once in a while. There is a huge number of encounters between Europeans from various cultural backgrounds every day, and sometimes your background marks you as a member of an outgroup. And nobody is really excluded from that.
  - gambiting 4y ago
    I think OP means that people in Europe hate each other for various reasons other than being "white christian" even if a lot of them are that. See how Romanians are treated almost anywhere in Europe, despite a lot of them being as white as they come, and Christian too. See how Poles are still perceived in a lot of places. So yes, I actually agree with that statement - in Europe white christians will be primary recipients of xenophobia, but it's neither because they are white nor because they are christian.
bnralt 4y ago
> For instance, the majority of Polish citizens have not shown a single bit of decency towards refugees from Syria and Iraq - for decades. Almost no refugee was allowed in, and other were treated like subhumans. Also worth noting that, unlike Ukrainian refugees, the Syrian and Iraq refugees are the direct result of the war that Poland and other nations waged against Iraq, destabilizing the entire area and leaving it a war zone.
- Isinlor 4y ago
  Polish people in few cases did offer help to middle east refugees. But they do not want to stay in Poland. Many of them will just disappear into thin air. They want social welfare of Western Europe and are very vocal about it. On the other hand, Ukraine is protecting us from Russia. Most men are not allowed to leave and are expected to fight if necessary. The last we can do is to provide them with weapons and take care of their families. BTW - Poland participating in US wars is also due to fear of Russia. We need powerful ally or we will become refugees once more. In quite naive way we also saw US as a moral leader.
gambiting 4y ago
>>Here's something that makes me angry: We (as in Europe) were in a refugee crisis for a long time. And yet, many countries washed their hands clean of it - with the most demeaning and undignified rhetoric. And I actually agree with you. I'm absolutely abhorred by how Poland has treated refugees in the years prior to this. Even just in weeks prior, at the Belarussian border - it was an absolute shitshow and I hated my country for it. But at the same time, I don't think this is helpful right now in any way. If I had to explain it right now, I wouldn't say it's because Ukrainians are white christians - I think(and this is my personal opinion) that it's because we look at what's happening in Ukraine and we recognize all the awful shit that Russia did to us in the past. Forcing Russian history and language on us? Check. Kidnapping and moving citizens deeper into Russia for "integration"? Check. I have equal amount of stories from my own family about suffering from the hands of Nazis as I do about suffering done by the Russians. And then on top of that - that conflict is really close to home, while the Syrian one just.....wasn't. The Russian advance to the West through Ukraine strikes fear in the Baltic states like not many other things.
- Isinlor 4y ago
  I personally think Poland handled Lukashenko regime very well. There is no reason why migrants should be robbed by Belarus and then dumped into Western Europe trough Poland. Strong response discouraged more tragedies. And don't get me wrong. We can have discussion about how many migrants from the whole world we can host in Europe. As someone with strong libertarian leanings I'm personally quite divided on it myself. But it's not up to Belarus to decide.
sofixa 4y ago
> They are white Christians No, they are neighbors that speak a close language that share history and that are facing a common enemy. Nobody gives a flying shit about religion in that matter, what do you think, atheist Ukrainians are sent back to die from Russian artillery?
blub 4y ago
Syria’s far away from Europe and in reality no refugees from there have the right to protection from Europe. The EU being the moral superpower that it is helped them anyway, so I think it deserves praise, not criticism. Well, at least deserves praise for the intensions which were good. It completely bungled the implementation and deserves all the criticism in the world for that.

by zwaps 4y ago

Swenrekcah 4y ago

This is just human nature 101. We care more about things that happen closer to us than far away, and more about people we can relate better with than people we relate worse with. There’s no point in being mad at people housing Ukrainians for not having housed Syrians.

jltsiren 4y ago

> Now there is a sudden sympathy for refugees - and we ALL know the true reason for it: They are white Christians. That explanation does not make sense. We are talking about Europe, after all, where xenophobia routinely targets white European Christians, because their language / culture / nationality / brand of Christianity is different. Ukrainian refugees receive different treatment, because they are fleeing a mutual enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, or something like that. It's not a matter of right and wrong or some abstract principles but that of self-interest. People in East Europe generally consider the current Russian regime a threat, and they are willing to help those facing the threat.

morsch 4y ago
Sure, white European Christians, widely known to be among the primary recipients of xenophobia in Europe.
- jltsiren 4y ago
  What do you think caused the World Wars? Or, to give a more recent example, consider the discrimination East Europeans faced after their countries joined the EU and many of them immigrated to the West. Europe is not the US. People from other European countries (and from many traditional minorities in the same country) are obviously different as soon as they start speaking. Many Europeans live outside their home country and most visit other European countries once in a while. There is a huge number of encounters between Europeans from various cultural backgrounds every day, and sometimes your background marks you as a member of an outgroup. And nobody is really excluded from that.
- gambiting 4y ago
  I think OP means that people in Europe hate each other for various reasons other than being "white christian" even if a lot of them are that. See how Romanians are treated almost anywhere in Europe, despite a lot of them being as white as they come, and Christian too. See how Poles are still perceived in a lot of places. So yes, I actually agree with that statement - in Europe white christians will be primary recipients of xenophobia, but it's neither because they are white nor because they are christian.

bnralt 4y ago

> For instance, the majority of Polish citizens have not shown a single bit of decency towards refugees from Syria and Iraq - for decades. Almost no refugee was allowed in, and other were treated like subhumans. Also worth noting that, unlike Ukrainian refugees, the Syrian and Iraq refugees are the direct result of the war that Poland and other nations waged against Iraq, destabilizing the entire area and leaving it a war zone.

Isinlor 4y ago
Polish people in few cases did offer help to middle east refugees. But they do not want to stay in Poland. Many of them will just disappear into thin air. They want social welfare of Western Europe and are very vocal about it. On the other hand, Ukraine is protecting us from Russia. Most men are not allowed to leave and are expected to fight if necessary. The last we can do is to provide them with weapons and take care of their families. BTW - Poland participating in US wars is also due to fear of Russia. We need powerful ally or we will become refugees once more. In quite naive way we also saw US as a moral leader.

gambiting 4y ago

>>Here's something that makes me angry: We (as in Europe) were in a refugee crisis for a long time. And yet, many countries washed their hands clean of it - with the most demeaning and undignified rhetoric. And I actually agree with you. I'm absolutely abhorred by how Poland has treated refugees in the years prior to this. Even just in weeks prior, at the Belarussian border - it was an absolute shitshow and I hated my country for it. But at the same time, I don't think this is helpful right now in any way. If I had to explain it right now, I wouldn't say it's because Ukrainians are white christians - I think(and this is my personal opinion) that it's because we look at what's happening in Ukraine and we recognize all the awful shit that Russia did to us in the past. Forcing Russian history and language on us? Check. Kidnapping and moving citizens deeper into Russia for "integration"? Check. I have equal amount of stories from my own family about suffering from the hands of Nazis as I do about suffering done by the Russians. And then on top of that - that conflict is really close to home, while the Syrian one just.....wasn't. The Russian advance to the West through Ukraine strikes fear in the Baltic states like not many other things.

Isinlor 4y ago
I personally think Poland handled Lukashenko regime very well. There is no reason why migrants should be robbed by Belarus and then dumped into Western Europe trough Poland. Strong response discouraged more tragedies. And don't get me wrong. We can have discussion about how many migrants from the whole world we can host in Europe. As someone with strong libertarian leanings I'm personally quite divided on it myself. But it's not up to Belarus to decide.

sofixa 4y ago

> They are white Christians No, they are neighbors that speak a close language that share history and that are facing a common enemy. Nobody gives a flying shit about religion in that matter, what do you think, atheist Ukrainians are sent back to die from Russian artillery?

blub 4y ago

Syria’s far away from Europe and in reality no refugees from there have the right to protection from Europe. The EU being the moral superpower that it is helped them anyway, so I think it deserves praise, not criticism. Well, at least deserves praise for the intensions which were good. It completely bungled the implementation and deserves all the criticism in the world for that.