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> I wish people would flex their donations to effective charities instead and find simpler luxuries. Why? Are watchmakers not people who deserve to have an in

> I wish people would flex their donations to effective charities instead and find simpler luxuries. Why? Are watchmakers not people who deserve to have an income? Do they not then spend their income on goods and services that help the economy?

metadat 4y ago
I believe parent comment is trying to convey that more societal good could be done through more effective donations compared to donating thousands to a watchmaker or watchmaking corporation. Are they using the surplus to better society or only to enrich themselves?
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  More societal good would be done if governments enacted policies which help people instead of relying on charity from the wealthy... Also watchmaking is blue collar work.
  - metadat 4y ago
    100% agree.
lmm 4y ago
> Why? Are watchmakers not people who deserve to have an income? Why? Just because they're good at something that takes effort? By that logic everyone who has a challenging hobby - and most hobbies are ultimately challenging - deserves an income from it. Would you say that anyone who's good at any sport, or any craft, or any game, or even knowing celebrity trivia, deserves an income? IMO at most people who produce real value for others can be said to "deserve" an income. And while watchmakers produce something that a small number of people are willing to pay a lot for, it's hard to say that they're producing real value as opposed to some kind of Veblen status display. (Contrast that with something like a mansion or a sports car - although it's a luxury good, there are tangible ways in which it's objectively better than the "cheap" equivalent, in a way that a mechanical watch is not)
- closeparen 4y ago
  Because someone is willing to pay them one. Value is between buyer and seller. It's not for an onlooker to say which value is "real" and which is not.
  - kqr 4y ago
    But why is someone willing to pay them? Because luxury watches are a status item. Why are they a status item? Because enough people believe them to be one. So value (in this sense) is not really between buyer and seller at all, but a common agreement between a large enough number of people. What OP in this discussion did was shine a spotlight on that fact, maybe in the hopes of getting at least one person to change what they think is valuable, to ultimately help society redirect money to more needed things.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      > Because luxury watches are a status item. Rolexes are a status item. They're cheap in the world of watches. Many brands you've never heard of command far higher prices. The value is in the fact someone who studied horology their whole life devoted a certain amount of hours and effort into creating something. People who love watches love the craftsmanship.
      - kqr 4y ago
        Sure, but this sidetrack were started from the fact that there are many hobbies where people devote hours of craftsmanship and effort into creating something that's not considered nearly as valuable. So "hours of craftsmanship and effort" is not what makes something valuable. It takes something else -- in this case that it's a status symbol. A long time ago it would have been certain tulips. Now it's watches.
        Mikeb85 4y ago
        It's demand that makes it valuable. And it's demanded because some people appreciate it. That's it. If people want it, it has value. Period.

metadat 4y ago

I believe parent comment is trying to convey that more societal good could be done through more effective donations compared to donating thousands to a watchmaker or watchmaking corporation. Are they using the surplus to better society or only to enrich themselves?

Mikeb85 4y ago
More societal good would be done if governments enacted policies which help people instead of relying on charity from the wealthy... Also watchmaking is blue collar work.
- metadat 4y ago
  100% agree.

lmm 4y ago

> Why? Are watchmakers not people who deserve to have an income? Why? Just because they're good at something that takes effort? By that logic everyone who has a challenging hobby - and most hobbies are ultimately challenging - deserves an income from it. Would you say that anyone who's good at any sport, or any craft, or any game, or even knowing celebrity trivia, deserves an income? IMO at most people who produce real value for others can be said to "deserve" an income. And while watchmakers produce something that a small number of people are willing to pay a lot for, it's hard to say that they're producing real value as opposed to some kind of Veblen status display. (Contrast that with something like a mansion or a sports car - although it's a luxury good, there are tangible ways in which it's objectively better than the "cheap" equivalent, in a way that a mechanical watch is not)

closeparen 4y ago
Because someone is willing to pay them one. Value is between buyer and seller. It's not for an onlooker to say which value is "real" and which is not.
- kqr 4y ago
  But why is someone willing to pay them? Because luxury watches are a status item. Why are they a status item? Because enough people believe them to be one. So value (in this sense) is not really between buyer and seller at all, but a common agreement between a large enough number of people. What OP in this discussion did was shine a spotlight on that fact, maybe in the hopes of getting at least one person to change what they think is valuable, to ultimately help society redirect money to more needed things.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    > Because luxury watches are a status item. Rolexes are a status item. They're cheap in the world of watches. Many brands you've never heard of command far higher prices. The value is in the fact someone who studied horology their whole life devoted a certain amount of hours and effort into creating something. People who love watches love the craftsmanship.
    - kqr 4y ago
      Sure, but this sidetrack were started from the fact that there are many hobbies where people devote hours of craftsmanship and effort into creating something that's not considered nearly as valuable. So "hours of craftsmanship and effort" is not what makes something valuable. It takes something else -- in this case that it's a status symbol. A long time ago it would have been certain tulips. Now it's watches.
      - Mikeb85 4y ago
        It's demand that makes it valuable. And it's demanded because some people appreciate it. That's it. If people want it, it has value. Period.