4 ms·

Everyone here seems to be a big fan of the "no true Scotsman." If you write code you're a programmer. End of story. "Programming, and then there's programming

by araneae 15y ago

Everyone here seems to be a big fan of the "no true Scotsman." If you write code you're a programmer. End of story. "Programming, and then there's programming" and "code plumbing" are, in fact, semantics.

derefr 15y ago
> If you write code you're a programmer. End of story. If you do arithmetic, does that make you a mathematician? Some things are a matter of degree.
- ramchip 15y ago
  Your analogy doesn't work because "mathematician" is a research position. You should compare mathematicians to computer scientists, not programmers. You could make the same analogy and prove any side of the debate depending on the job you choose: If you do plumbing, does that make you a plumber? If you do painting, does that make you a painter? If you do physics, does that make you a physicist? If you drive vehicles, does that make you a driver? Really, the debate here is that some people consider the word programmer to mean "computer scientist" or "computer expert", while others consider it to mean "person who programs". It's a debate on the meaning of a word and this kind of debate cannot be settled, because the word has multiple meanings. Everyone's right in their own way.
derleth 15y ago
> Everyone here seems to be a big fan of the "no true Scotsman." This isn't an example of that, because nobody changed definitions partway through.
- SomeCallMeTim 15y ago
  On the other hand, a lot of people here love claiming that an argument is "no true Scotsman." ;)
Confusion 15y ago
If you write code you're a programmer. End of story. The 'no true Scotsman' fallacy does not apply when you are actually debating whether someone living in a border region with mixed parents can be considered 'a true Scotsman'. We don't call everyone that uses Excel a programmer, even though the simplest expression of the form sum(A11:A22) is, for every reasonable definition, 'code'. That would dilute the term far beyond what people generally mean when they talk about 'programmers'. You cannot call yourself a writer, just because you passed English with a C for your essays and now write blog posts for a limited audience. You are not a programmer just because you can whip out webapps that strictly do the limited things you require of them.

by araneae 15y ago

derefr 15y ago

> If you write code you're a programmer. End of story. If you do arithmetic, does that make you a mathematician? Some things are a matter of degree.

ramchip 15y ago
Your analogy doesn't work because "mathematician" is a research position. You should compare mathematicians to computer scientists, not programmers. You could make the same analogy and prove any side of the debate depending on the job you choose: If you do plumbing, does that make you a plumber? If you do painting, does that make you a painter? If you do physics, does that make you a physicist? If you drive vehicles, does that make you a driver? Really, the debate here is that some people consider the word programmer to mean "computer scientist" or "computer expert", while others consider it to mean "person who programs". It's a debate on the meaning of a word and this kind of debate cannot be settled, because the word has multiple meanings. Everyone's right in their own way.

derleth 15y ago

> Everyone here seems to be a big fan of the "no true Scotsman." This isn't an example of that, because nobody changed definitions partway through.

SomeCallMeTim 15y ago
On the other hand, a lot of people here love claiming that an argument is "no true Scotsman." ;)

Confusion 15y ago

If you write code you're a programmer. End of story. The 'no true Scotsman' fallacy does not apply when you are actually debating whether someone living in a border region with mixed parents can be considered 'a true Scotsman'. We don't call everyone that uses Excel a programmer, even though the simplest expression of the form sum(A11:A22) is, for every reasonable definition, 'code'. That would dilute the term far beyond what people generally mean when they talk about 'programmers'. You cannot call yourself a writer, just because you passed English with a C for your essays and now write blog posts for a limited audience. You are not a programmer just because you can whip out webapps that strictly do the limited things you require of them.