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I am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone s

I am from latin america and at least neither China nor Russia have participated in coup d'etat to install a military junta to then torture and massacre anyone slightly left of the US "Democratic" Party. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2khAmMTAjI

ciroduran 4y ago
Hi from Venezuela
- fabianhjr 4y ago
  Ah yes, also curiously enough the US is way more prone to completely embargo Cuba and Venezuela but neither Russia nor China. (Due to political-economic reasons and not moral/ethical ones) Edit: profile I am replying to has the following in their about section: "about: I play music and I code videogames. I live in Brighton, UK." so assuming the "hi from venezuela" was sarcastic.
  - ciroduran 4y ago
    I lived there 29 years of my life, I lived the dictatorship, and I still got family and friends. Far from sarcastic.
    - fabianhjr 4y ago
      Ah yes, compared to the constitutional monarchy of the United Kingdom.
    - rafaelm 4y ago
      I'm currently living the dictatorship in Venezuela. Ask me if you think Ciro's opinion is not valid, for whatever reason. (Don't know him btw. Epale Ciro!)
      - fabianhjr 4y ago
        ¿Crees que solo hay dictaduras bajo gobiernos anti-capitalistas o es algo en donde por ejemplo Qatar (o Reino Unido) siendo monarquías constitucionales podrían superar en autoritarismo?
  - judge2020 4y ago
    > (Due to political-economic reasons and not moral/ethical ones) Has there ever been a lasting trade embargo that was based solely on moral and ethical grounds?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
bitlax 4y ago
Yeah Russia has been totally hands off in Latin America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#/media/File:CheinMoscow.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#/media/File:CheinM...
- fabianhjr 4y ago
  Russian Federation != Union of Soviet Socialist Republics More so: Russian Federation != Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic
  - illuminati1911 4y ago
    USA during Reagan in 1980s != USA today
    - _tik_ 4y ago
      Iraq Invasion is the USA today
      - throwawaymaths 4y ago
        No? We finally had a president that hasn't started a new war (trump) and we are on track to having a president that hasn't started a new war and has withdrawn troops from one war. Things are changing.
        sph 4y ago
        A little early to state "things are changing." because the US hasn't invaded anyone in half a decade.
        antifa 4y ago
        They're just saving up for next year's big surprise.
    - random314 4y ago
      However the firm grip on Haiti and Latin America in general is not gone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bertrand_Aristide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bertrand_Aristide
edmcnulty101 4y ago
- effingwewt 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
beebmam 4y ago
*Yet
giancarlostoro 4y ago
China didn't need to, they flock to China and other countries on their own, for example Hugo Chavez with China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Ch%C3%A1vez_administration_(1999-2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Venezuela_relati... What was once a beautiful nation is now rife with crime, even the military of all things is told not to have cell phones out by stop lights because somebody will swing on by on a motorcycle and hijack the phone. From the darn military! Still surprised they get away with it. I also remember hearing from a relative that Chavez would basically bring Cuban doctors over from Cuba.
- tsol 4y ago
  To be fair, Cuba is very very good at training doctors
anothernewdude 4y ago
Russia has put down multiple popular uprisings within its sphere - Belarus, Kazakhstan. Invaded Georgia, and Ukraine to effect regime change. And looks to be behind the Coup in Mali and one in Montenegro. China has supported violent Juntas in Myanmar, and Sudan. It has essentially performed a coup in Hong Kong. And of course it loves supplying weapons to latin countries via Norinco. And it's doing economic damage and putting more of those countries in debt, just like it took Hambantota International Port from Sri Lanka. Both are racking up kills elsewhere in Africa too.
- quetzthecoatl 4y ago
  and all of that combined is like a regular wedensday for US.
- bigcat12345678 4y ago
  > China has supported violent Juntas in Myanmar, and Sudan. Links please? Saying nothing / neutral Verbal approval Material support All these can be interpreted as supporting military Juntas. And military Juntas are not necessarily bad. For example, SK was developed effectively through a Military Junta government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Republic_of_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Republic_of_Korea > It has essentially performed a coup in Hong Kong. What is this? HK is part of China right? > it loves supplying weapons to latin countries via Norinco. Nothing special, China's aim is the largest weapon exporter. > And it's doing economic damage and putting more of those countries in debt, just like it took Hambantota International Port from Sri Lanka. This is shown to be a myth, as some other comments here suggested. > Both are racking up kills elsewhere in Africa too. What is this?
  - anothernewdude 4y ago
    > This is shown to be a myth, as some other comments here suggested. There have certainly been a bunch of opinion pieces expressing that opinion coming out at the same time. Which is incredibly weird, unless... oh right, opinions can be bought and China has a history of doing that. Mystery solved I guess.
pinkcashmere 4y ago
Sophistifunk 4y ago
Absolutely nothing about the historical bad behaviour of the US in Central and South America has any bearing on the threat the CCP poses to a billion Chinese and the world today. Nothing.
- bshepard 4y ago
  Actually, they have a lot to do with each other, as the violence that the United States did to Central and South America was always justified with anticommunist rhetoric, like this. A Peter Kingsley quote, more about spiritual perception, also applies to the political: "The only possible way to understand is by standing back in the stillness that lies underneath thinking and sees things as they really are. It's like watching hundreds of colors, each of them trying to persuade you it happens to be the most important one-then stepping back and seeing they all form a single rainbow. Thoughts in themselves are always leading to division and separation. But all thoughts, together, are a single whole." (from "Reality")
- trashtester 4y ago
  Not their actions in Latin America, but the USA did parttake in some extreme violence in Asia about 75 years ago that could be blamed for the CCP gaining power in the first place. I'm not sure Imperial Japanese rule would be so much better, though.
  - tormeh 4y ago
    Imperial Japan was arguably worse than Nazi Germany. Unbelievably bad.
noisy_boy 4y ago
China has learned from US policies and has instead opted for more insidious and less "noisy" approaches like hard to repay soft-loans, mass buying of agricultural lands, starting vice businesses like casinos etc which also result in societal changes once the businesses started by Chinese start bringing a sizable influx of Chinese to work in them. See northwest Laos for a direct example (this is not an armchair comment - I have relations there and have seen the changes firsthand over the decade during numerous visits).
- fabianhjr 4y ago
  I would much rather have that over the Jakarta Method.
- dirtyid 4y ago
  >insideous Which is fairly tame in terms of securing geopolitical influence and enables more win-win arrangments. Especially with respect to Laos - a landlocked country with (to be blunt) zero long term development prospects. Laos per capital GDP growth has been on pace with booming Vietnam that has access to outsource manufacturing and maritime trade. Laos should be worse off than Cambodia that has 60% of current Laos per capita GDP. Even their largest export/growth sector - hydropower to Thailand is enabled by PRC (not to sound patronizing). PRC infra projects setup Laos to be the battery of region + rail connectivity for other exports = only real viable of short/medium term growth strategy for a undeveloped landlocked country with poor human development. Go look up gdp per capita trends of ASEAN since 2000 when PRC growth started blowing up, also LATM during same period. You'll be hard pressed to find any country whose per capita GDP increased by 8x like Laos. Many are luck with half that. As for societal changes on border regions that benefits from flow of migrant and economic development, that's what happens when countries get richer - things change. If you think that's a bad deal then I'm curious if you can find a better one, especially for a land locked country with no maritime access.
  - throwawaymaths 4y ago
    While we're cherry picking examples, there's Sri Lanka, port of gwadar.
aivisol 4y ago
I am from eastern Europe and right now Russia is invading a democratic country to install its own government, tortures and massacres everyone left and right.
throwawaymaths 4y ago
Russia definitely has, just not as much in your backyard. China hasn't, but that's probably because the last time they tried that they got their ass handed to them by a country that had just been savagely attacked by (but also defeated) the us. Also it has been slowly encroaching on India and bhutan territory. China definitely declares it's intent to export it's style of polity around the world. And that does include torturing and disappearing citizens that are supposed to be on their own watch.
tsol 4y ago
That's because Latin America is nowhere near China or Russia. They aren't going to go half way around the world to harass Latin Americans. But if Latin America was in the place of Hong Kong, Laos, or Ukraine they wouldn't enjoy the same peace

ciroduran 4y ago

Hi from Venezuela

fabianhjr 4y ago
Ah yes, also curiously enough the US is way more prone to completely embargo Cuba and Venezuela but neither Russia nor China. (Due to political-economic reasons and not moral/ethical ones) Edit: profile I am replying to has the following in their about section: "about: I play music and I code videogames. I live in Brighton, UK." so assuming the "hi from venezuela" was sarcastic.
- ciroduran 4y ago
  I lived there 29 years of my life, I lived the dictatorship, and I still got family and friends. Far from sarcastic.
  - fabianhjr 4y ago
    Ah yes, compared to the constitutional monarchy of the United Kingdom.
  - rafaelm 4y ago
    I'm currently living the dictatorship in Venezuela. Ask me if you think Ciro's opinion is not valid, for whatever reason. (Don't know him btw. Epale Ciro!)
    - fabianhjr 4y ago
      ¿Crees que solo hay dictaduras bajo gobiernos anti-capitalistas o es algo en donde por ejemplo Qatar (o Reino Unido) siendo monarquías constitucionales podrían superar en autoritarismo?
- judge2020 4y ago
  > (Due to political-economic reasons and not moral/ethical ones) Has there ever been a lasting trade embargo that was based solely on moral and ethical grounds?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

bitlax 4y ago

Yeah Russia has been totally hands off in Latin America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#/media/File:CheinMoscow.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#/media/File:CheinM...

fabianhjr 4y ago
Russian Federation != Union of Soviet Socialist Republics More so: Russian Federation != Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic
- illuminati1911 4y ago
  USA during Reagan in 1980s != USA today
  - _tik_ 4y ago
    Iraq Invasion is the USA today
    - throwawaymaths 4y ago
      No? We finally had a president that hasn't started a new war (trump) and we are on track to having a president that hasn't started a new war and has withdrawn troops from one war. Things are changing.
      - sph 4y ago
        A little early to state "things are changing." because the US hasn't invaded anyone in half a decade.
      - antifa 4y ago
        They're just saving up for next year's big surprise.
  - random314 4y ago
    However the firm grip on Haiti and Latin America in general is not gone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bertrand_Aristide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Bertrand_Aristide

edmcnulty101 4y ago

effingwewt 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

beebmam 4y ago

*Yet

giancarlostoro 4y ago

China didn't need to, they flock to China and other countries on their own, for example Hugo Chavez with China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Venezuela_relations#Ch%C3%A1vez_administration_(1999-2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Venezuela_relati... What was once a beautiful nation is now rife with crime, even the military of all things is told not to have cell phones out by stop lights because somebody will swing on by on a motorcycle and hijack the phone. From the darn military! Still surprised they get away with it. I also remember hearing from a relative that Chavez would basically bring Cuban doctors over from Cuba.

tsol 4y ago
To be fair, Cuba is very very good at training doctors

anothernewdude 4y ago

Russia has put down multiple popular uprisings within its sphere - Belarus, Kazakhstan. Invaded Georgia, and Ukraine to effect regime change. And looks to be behind the Coup in Mali and one in Montenegro. China has supported violent Juntas in Myanmar, and Sudan. It has essentially performed a coup in Hong Kong. And of course it loves supplying weapons to latin countries via Norinco. And it's doing economic damage and putting more of those countries in debt, just like it took Hambantota International Port from Sri Lanka. Both are racking up kills elsewhere in Africa too.

quetzthecoatl 4y ago
and all of that combined is like a regular wedensday for US.
bigcat12345678 4y ago
> China has supported violent Juntas in Myanmar, and Sudan. Links please? Saying nothing / neutral Verbal approval Material support All these can be interpreted as supporting military Juntas. And military Juntas are not necessarily bad. For example, SK was developed effectively through a Military Junta government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Republic_of_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Republic_of_Korea > It has essentially performed a coup in Hong Kong. What is this? HK is part of China right? > it loves supplying weapons to latin countries via Norinco. Nothing special, China's aim is the largest weapon exporter. > And it's doing economic damage and putting more of those countries in debt, just like it took Hambantota International Port from Sri Lanka. This is shown to be a myth, as some other comments here suggested. > Both are racking up kills elsewhere in Africa too. What is this?
- anothernewdude 4y ago
  > This is shown to be a myth, as some other comments here suggested. There have certainly been a bunch of opinion pieces expressing that opinion coming out at the same time. Which is incredibly weird, unless... oh right, opinions can be bought and China has a history of doing that. Mystery solved I guess.

pinkcashmere 4y ago

Sophistifunk 4y ago

Absolutely nothing about the historical bad behaviour of the US in Central and South America has any bearing on the threat the CCP poses to a billion Chinese and the world today. Nothing.

bshepard 4y ago
Actually, they have a lot to do with each other, as the violence that the United States did to Central and South America was always justified with anticommunist rhetoric, like this. A Peter Kingsley quote, more about spiritual perception, also applies to the political: "The only possible way to understand is by standing back in the stillness that lies underneath thinking and sees things as they really are. It's like watching hundreds of colors, each of them trying to persuade you it happens to be the most important one-then stepping back and seeing they all form a single rainbow. Thoughts in themselves are always leading to division and separation. But all thoughts, together, are a single whole." (from "Reality")
trashtester 4y ago
Not their actions in Latin America, but the USA did parttake in some extreme violence in Asia about 75 years ago that could be blamed for the CCP gaining power in the first place. I'm not sure Imperial Japanese rule would be so much better, though.
- tormeh 4y ago
  Imperial Japan was arguably worse than Nazi Germany. Unbelievably bad.

noisy_boy 4y ago

China has learned from US policies and has instead opted for more insidious and less "noisy" approaches like hard to repay soft-loans, mass buying of agricultural lands, starting vice businesses like casinos etc which also result in societal changes once the businesses started by Chinese start bringing a sizable influx of Chinese to work in them. See northwest Laos for a direct example (this is not an armchair comment - I have relations there and have seen the changes firsthand over the decade during numerous visits).

fabianhjr 4y ago
I would much rather have that over the Jakarta Method.
dirtyid 4y ago
>insideous Which is fairly tame in terms of securing geopolitical influence and enables more win-win arrangments. Especially with respect to Laos - a landlocked country with (to be blunt) zero long term development prospects. Laos per capital GDP growth has been on pace with booming Vietnam that has access to outsource manufacturing and maritime trade. Laos should be worse off than Cambodia that has 60% of current Laos per capita GDP. Even their largest export/growth sector - hydropower to Thailand is enabled by PRC (not to sound patronizing). PRC infra projects setup Laos to be the battery of region + rail connectivity for other exports = only real viable of short/medium term growth strategy for a undeveloped landlocked country with poor human development. Go look up gdp per capita trends of ASEAN since 2000 when PRC growth started blowing up, also LATM during same period. You'll be hard pressed to find any country whose per capita GDP increased by 8x like Laos. Many are luck with half that. As for societal changes on border regions that benefits from flow of migrant and economic development, that's what happens when countries get richer - things change. If you think that's a bad deal then I'm curious if you can find a better one, especially for a land locked country with no maritime access.
- throwawaymaths 4y ago
  While we're cherry picking examples, there's Sri Lanka, port of gwadar.

aivisol 4y ago

I am from eastern Europe and right now Russia is invading a democratic country to install its own government, tortures and massacres everyone left and right.

throwawaymaths 4y ago

Russia definitely has, just not as much in your backyard. China hasn't, but that's probably because the last time they tried that they got their ass handed to them by a country that had just been savagely attacked by (but also defeated) the us. Also it has been slowly encroaching on India and bhutan territory. China definitely declares it's intent to export it's style of polity around the world. And that does include torturing and disappearing citizens that are supposed to be on their own watch.

tsol 4y ago

That's because Latin America is nowhere near China or Russia. They aren't going to go half way around the world to harass Latin Americans. But if Latin America was in the place of Hong Kong, Laos, or Ukraine they wouldn't enjoy the same peace