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https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wi

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop Do you always debate in a dishonest fashion?

peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> Do you always debate in a dishonest fashion? I'm simply not an English native speaker. So the question goes right back at you, I guess. Would you prefer to argue in Italian? I can be much more precise in my native tongue. p.s. please remind me what false arguments I provided. It would be much appreciated. thanks.
- goldenkey 4y ago
  The dishonesty stems from the intent and tactics - not from a specific statement. Asking a lot of questions is really not a valid form of debate - it's moreso a form of argument. I do not believe that lab animals should exist, period. You are in search for a replacement solution to drug development. I am not. There lies our dispute. I feel that it is okay to not be able to solve this "problem" because our current solution is exploitative and wrong. I agree that often in human trials, the people who volunteer are poor or desperate, and this is a different issue which goes to the root of capitalism -- since work itself is a coerced form of volunteerism with the societal threat of homelessness. Pretty much all of capitalism is coerced, just on different degrees or levels. The same applies to most of what is considered voluntary or consenting. For example, joining the military. One can argue that most who join are lost, confused or poor. And they'd be right. Or prostitution. Or working a minimum wage job. Etc. The problem with fake consent in capitalism is much larger than drug trials.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > The dishonesty stems from the intent and tactics > Asking a lot of questions is really not a valid form of debate It's the same question, actually. > I do not believe that lab animals should exist, period. What you believe it's irrelevant. > You are in search for a replacement solution to drug development. I'm perfectly fine with what we have. You're rhetoric skills must be quite weak if you need to put words in my mouth. > I am not. There lies our dispute. I feel that it is okay to not be able to solve this "problem" because our current solution is exploitative and wrong. Then just don't use drugs or any product coming from animals. Watch this https://www.ted.com/talks/christien_meindertsma_how_pig_parts_make_the_world_turn/transcript?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/christien_meindertsma_how_pig_part... > I agree that often in human trials, the people who volunteer are poor or desperate Nobody said it and not necessarily. They are simply ill. You can't use healthy people to prove a drug works... > since work itself is a coerced form of volunteerism with the societal threat of homelessness. > Pretty much all of capitalism is coerced, (・_・ヾ «The dishonesty stems from the intent and tactics»

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

> Do you always debate in a dishonest fashion? I'm simply not an English native speaker. So the question goes right back at you, I guess. Would you prefer to argue in Italian? I can be much more precise in my native tongue. p.s. please remind me what false arguments I provided. It would be much appreciated. thanks.

goldenkey 4y ago
The dishonesty stems from the intent and tactics - not from a specific statement. Asking a lot of questions is really not a valid form of debate - it's moreso a form of argument. I do not believe that lab animals should exist, period. You are in search for a replacement solution to drug development. I am not. There lies our dispute. I feel that it is okay to not be able to solve this "problem" because our current solution is exploitative and wrong. I agree that often in human trials, the people who volunteer are poor or desperate, and this is a different issue which goes to the root of capitalism -- since work itself is a coerced form of volunteerism with the societal threat of homelessness. Pretty much all of capitalism is coerced, just on different degrees or levels. The same applies to most of what is considered voluntary or consenting. For example, joining the military. One can argue that most who join are lost, confused or poor. And they'd be right. Or prostitution. Or working a minimum wage job. Etc. The problem with fake consent in capitalism is much larger than drug trials.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  > The dishonesty stems from the intent and tactics > Asking a lot of questions is really not a valid form of debate It's the same question, actually. > I do not believe that lab animals should exist, period. What you believe it's irrelevant. > You are in search for a replacement solution to drug development. I'm perfectly fine with what we have. You're rhetoric skills must be quite weak if you need to put words in my mouth. > I am not. There lies our dispute. I feel that it is okay to not be able to solve this "problem" because our current solution is exploitative and wrong. Then just don't use drugs or any product coming from animals. Watch this https://www.ted.com/talks/christien_meindertsma_how_pig_parts_make_the_world_turn/transcript?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/christien_meindertsma_how_pig_part... > I agree that often in human trials, the people who volunteer are poor or desperate Nobody said it and not necessarily. They are simply ill. You can't use healthy people to prove a drug works... > since work itself is a coerced form of volunteerism with the societal threat of homelessness. > Pretty much all of capitalism is coerced, (・_・ヾ «The dishonesty stems from the intent and tactics»