4 ms·

What's the alternative though? I also wish we would completely stop paying Russia, but this will come at incredible financial and stability (i.e: Europe falling

What's the alternative though? I also wish we would completely stop paying Russia, but this will come at incredible financial and stability (i.e: Europe falling apart) costs. Perhaps we should increase our spending on ending the war sooner instead. I don't know. We're caught between a rock and a hard place.

shmerl 4y ago
Well, what was the alternative during WWII? Defeating Nazi Germany for instance. Which is what happened. But surely not doing business with it during the war, that's self explanatory.
- AnonymousPlanet 4y ago
  And how is Europe commiting collective suicide going to defeat Russia? Must be fun looking in at all this from the sidelines.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    I'm an european, and I never understood this... We sent our soldiers to every shithole america decided to "bring democracy to", but now, ukraine has become so important, that we are willing to destroy our own economy and "passively fight" until the "last dead ukranian", to achieve what exactly?
    - int_19h 4y ago
      Where would you draw the line? Moldova? Baltic countries? Poland? Everyone for themselves?
      - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        Where did we draw the line with USA?
        shmerl 4y ago
        In Pearl Harbor. It was later than it could be obviously.
    - likecarter 4y ago
      His aspirations are much larger than Ukraine.
- difosfor 4y ago
  I think you're underestimating our dependency on energy in the modern world. It might be easier to convince us to just go ahead and start WW3, but we aren't going to do that, sorry. I hope we can find some way out of this that will be less harmful. What that will be I suppose only time will tell.
- permo-w 4y ago
  >doing business with [Nazi Germany] during the war it is often forgotten that this is exactly what the US did for the first 2-3 years of the war. Germany swallowed up the wealth of Europe. Britain had already swallowed up the wealth of a quarter of the world. the US swallowed up both of their wealth and ended the war with 2/3 of the world's gold this is a simplification, but it's also huge overarching story of WW2 that is often missed. people know the US and Russia became the world's two superpowers, but there's very little attention paid as to how the US came to be one of them
markvdb 4y ago
EU level energy emergency measures. So much time lost already since late February. Measures would have to radically focus on short term returns to yield a timely effect. Some ideas to evaluate, in no particular order. Some are (close to mainstream), others elephant's shit: - accelerated LNG terminal buildouts (butchering Nordstream 2 and making it a terminal at the coast, ...) - EU level natural gas purchasing - carrots for lowering per capita energy consumption: insulation, contests, subsidies, ... - temporary ban on use of cars with >= 3l engines - 100 km/h EU wide maximum speed limit - no private jet traffic except for medical emergencies - temporarily extend/unmothball coal and nuclear electricity plants - temporary regulatory relaxation on wood harvesting for heating purposes - 24/7 production at any and every solar panel, wind turbine, insulation and heat pump manufacturer - faster rollout of planned (hvdc) interconnects - EU wide helicopter money for paying energy bills or lowering them: per capita, differentiated by climate zone - (possibly) concentrate large solar and green hydrogen projects in southern EU (higher immediate returns) - intensive direct wage support for employees in temporarily loss-leading energy intensive sectors - ..._

shmerl 4y ago

Well, what was the alternative during WWII? Defeating Nazi Germany for instance. Which is what happened. But surely not doing business with it during the war, that's self explanatory.

AnonymousPlanet 4y ago
And how is Europe commiting collective suicide going to defeat Russia? Must be fun looking in at all this from the sidelines.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  I'm an european, and I never understood this... We sent our soldiers to every shithole america decided to "bring democracy to", but now, ukraine has become so important, that we are willing to destroy our own economy and "passively fight" until the "last dead ukranian", to achieve what exactly?
  - int_19h 4y ago
    Where would you draw the line? Moldova? Baltic countries? Poland? Everyone for themselves?
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      Where did we draw the line with USA?
      - shmerl 4y ago
        In Pearl Harbor. It was later than it could be obviously.
  - likecarter 4y ago
    His aspirations are much larger than Ukraine.
difosfor 4y ago
I think you're underestimating our dependency on energy in the modern world. It might be easier to convince us to just go ahead and start WW3, but we aren't going to do that, sorry. I hope we can find some way out of this that will be less harmful. What that will be I suppose only time will tell.
permo-w 4y ago
>doing business with [Nazi Germany] during the war it is often forgotten that this is exactly what the US did for the first 2-3 years of the war. Germany swallowed up the wealth of Europe. Britain had already swallowed up the wealth of a quarter of the world. the US swallowed up both of their wealth and ended the war with 2/3 of the world's gold this is a simplification, but it's also huge overarching story of WW2 that is often missed. people know the US and Russia became the world's two superpowers, but there's very little attention paid as to how the US came to be one of them

markvdb 4y ago

EU level energy emergency measures. So much time lost already since late February. Measures would have to radically focus on short term returns to yield a timely effect. Some ideas to evaluate, in no particular order. Some are (close to mainstream), others elephant's shit: - accelerated LNG terminal buildouts (butchering Nordstream 2 and making it a terminal at the coast, ...) - EU level natural gas purchasing - carrots for lowering per capita energy consumption: insulation, contests, subsidies, ... - temporary ban on use of cars with >= 3l engines - 100 km/h EU wide maximum speed limit - no private jet traffic except for medical emergencies - temporarily extend/unmothball coal and nuclear electricity plants - temporary regulatory relaxation on wood harvesting for heating purposes - 24/7 production at any and every solar panel, wind turbine, insulation and heat pump manufacturer - faster rollout of planned (hvdc) interconnects - EU wide helicopter money for paying energy bills or lowering them: per capita, differentiated by climate zone - (possibly) concentrate large solar and green hydrogen projects in southern EU (higher immediate returns) - intensive direct wage support for employees in temporarily loss-leading energy intensive sectors - ..._