3 ms·

> I can not possibly believe that the police are an overall force for good. Simple test: will it hurt more _overall_ to suddenly lose them or keep them? > You

by aksss 4y ago

> I can not possibly believe that the police are an overall force for good. Simple test: will it hurt more _overall_ to suddenly lose them or keep them? > You can turn on the news and the evidence is right there. Selection bias is huge - not making the news are the vast, vast, majority of daily interactions that are net positives for society. I’m not saying everything is perfect, but talking about “the police” as if they are a monolith in a country of hundreds of millions spread across 50 states and innumerable local communities is never going to be a good starting point for analysis.

Terr_ 4y ago
> Simple test: will it hurt more _overall_ to suddenly lose them or keep them? So everything or nothing? Sounds like a false dilemma. Another problem with this decision-making approach is that anything can be un/justified simply by changing the unspoken timescale at which you measure outcomes. On a short timescale, a knife stabbed into my gut should stay, because removing it will cause blood-loss. However on a longer timescale where I'm in the hands of some doctors with bandages, it should absolutely be removed...
- aksss 4y ago
  No, I think you’re missing the idea that this is a thought exercise to test the statement of police being “overall” bad.
  - TomSwirly 4y ago
    You live in a leaky tent with a lot of holes in it. Someone suggests you'd be better in a house. "Imagine where I would be without the tent! This is a thought experiment to test the statement of 'this tent being overall bad'. Therefore I won't move."
kelseyfrog 4y ago
> Simple test: will it hurt more _overall_ to suddenly lose them or keep them? Suddenly is doing a lot of the work here. Can police be unbundled over the course of years and result in an overall net good? Emphatically yes. We should examine the forces that prevent such an unbundling from taking place and work toward rendering them impotent.
- aksss 4y ago
  It’s a thought exercise to examine the validity of the “overall” judgement. Obviously(??) suddenly is not possible or preferable.
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    > Obviously(??) suddenly is not possible or preferable. "Suddenly"'s inclusion or exclusion dramatically changes the answer so it needs a bit more justification than it currently has.
- eric_cc 4y ago
  > Can police be unbundled over the course of years and result in an overall net good? Emphatically yes. Do you have proof or some source to support this idea?
gaze 4y ago

by aksss 4y ago

Terr_ 4y ago

> Simple test: will it hurt more _overall_ to suddenly lose them or keep them? So everything or nothing? Sounds like a false dilemma. Another problem with this decision-making approach is that anything can be un/justified simply by changing the unspoken timescale at which you measure outcomes. On a short timescale, a knife stabbed into my gut should stay, because removing it will cause blood-loss. However on a longer timescale where I'm in the hands of some doctors with bandages, it should absolutely be removed...

aksss 4y ago
No, I think you’re missing the idea that this is a thought exercise to test the statement of police being “overall” bad.
- TomSwirly 4y ago
  You live in a leaky tent with a lot of holes in it. Someone suggests you'd be better in a house. "Imagine where I would be without the tent! This is a thought experiment to test the statement of 'this tent being overall bad'. Therefore I won't move."

kelseyfrog 4y ago

> Simple test: will it hurt more _overall_ to suddenly lose them or keep them? Suddenly is doing a lot of the work here. Can police be unbundled over the course of years and result in an overall net good? Emphatically yes. We should examine the forces that prevent such an unbundling from taking place and work toward rendering them impotent.

aksss 4y ago
It’s a thought exercise to examine the validity of the “overall” judgement. Obviously(??) suddenly is not possible or preferable.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  > Obviously(??) suddenly is not possible or preferable. "Suddenly"'s inclusion or exclusion dramatically changes the answer so it needs a bit more justification than it currently has.
eric_cc 4y ago
> Can police be unbundled over the course of years and result in an overall net good? Emphatically yes. Do you have proof or some source to support this idea?

gaze 4y ago