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Russian gas flows to Europe
- marbu 4y agoCharts of Russian gas flows to Europe, sourced from ENTSO-G[1], gas storage levels from GIE[2]. Source code https://github.com/berthubert/gazproject https://github.com/berthubert/gazproject [1] https://entsog.eu/ https://entsog.eu/ [2] https://agsi.gie.eu/#/historical/eu https://agsi.gie.eu/#/historical/eu
- blibble 4y agothat storage looks like it's going to be gone in weeks at which point... the EU economy shuts down?
- Gravityloss 4y agoCan you be more specific? The storage graph look relatively flat to me. Interactive graph: https://agsi.gie.eu/graphs/eu https://agsi.gie.eu/graphs/eu
- loufe 4y agoYou're looking at the flow and not the storage quantity on that chart.
- Hamuko 4y agoDead?
- shmerl 4y agoHow fast did the rest of Europe cut ties with Nazi Germany after World War II started? Current level of feeding Russia's war machine looks bizarre.
- MomoXenosaga 4y agoMost of Europe got overrun. Bizarrely enough in my own country the German occupation made the economy boom- as we were Arians the Nazis didn't steal anything until D-day. It became obvious the Reichsmark would be pretty useless after Germany lost so the whole house of cards collapsed.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y agoWhich half? The nazi-occupied half, or the nazi-allied half?
- shmerl 4y agoObviously anti-Nazi allied part.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 4y agoSo... the UK?
- severino 4y agoDidn't know WWIII already started. If you meant stopping doing businesses with a country that invades another, I'm sorry to tell you that there are not enough "non-invading" countries that can sell all the resources that we in the EU need now.
- shmerl 4y agoExactly my point. Trying to whitewash this with "need to do business" isn't helping your arguments. Some tried to use same ones for doing business with Nazis during WWII. They very much don't like when anyone reminds about it today. Same will be for anyone who is doing business with Putin's fascists today.
- gpvos 4y agoThat last graph[0] is... disturbing. [0] "Energy content of gas storage sites in the EU". At the time of posting, it is mostly smooth but has a very steep drop at the end. from about 77 to 58 GW*year.
- phoronixrly 4y agoIs it correct though, or is it a result of incomplete data?
- kzrdude 4y agoProbably the latter. The big drop is not consistent with the withdrawal plot (no spike in that one.)
- marbu 4y agoAgreed, such withdrawal would be a bit weird. Also note this warning on the top of the page: > Be careful, this realtime graph is not always correct (especially the last hour)!
- wronglyprepaid 4y ago[flagged]
- wronglyprepaid 4y ago
- infinitezest 4y agoCan you connect the dots for me here? How is race/gender/sexuality related here?
- wronglyprepaid 4y ago
- lalaland1125 4y agoDang, can you ban this obvious troll?
- Izkata 4y ago
- wronglyprepaid 4y ago
- worik 4y agoThe Russian state has a reputation for bigotry and targeted violence
- dang 4y agoPlease see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32049189 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32049189. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048489 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32048489.
- clemensley 4y agoTwo days ago the German government voted to to shut off the three remaining nuclear power plants. https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/klima-nachhaltigkeit/bundestag-gibt-gruenes-licht-fuer-kohlekraftwerke-als-gas-ersatz-18157912.html https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/klima-nachhaltigkeit/...
- qbasic_forever 4y agoIt really seems like a foolish decision. Is there any good explanation for why they are shutting these down other than anti-nuclear fears? I mean, it's Germany of all places so I can't imagine they have any concerns about costs to refuel, refurbish or maintain these reactors in the future--it's likely a rounding error in their GDP and budgets.
- rasz 4y agohttps://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/23/world/europe/schroder-germany-russia-gas-ukraine-war-energy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/23/world/europe/schroder-ger...
- Tarsul 4y agothey stopped maintenance of these nuclear power plants 3 years ago because they "knew" they were out of life. Thus, they don't have the people or the safety measurements in place to go on with nuclear. Also, if the greens have no problem going further with coal, they wouldn't have a problem going on with nuclear (for a little while). So, it's definitely based on facts and not on idealism. Also (I still don't understand HN's hype for nuclear), let's not forget how often and much the nuclear plants have to stand still because of xyz (e.g. too little cooling water, which was the case in France in the last months).
- qbasic_forever 4y agoSure but this is Germany, a financial and manufacturing powerhouse in the world. If they decided they wanted these plants to keep running I can't imagine they would have any trouble at all doing so.
- superphil0 4y agoHere is another visualization of gas flow of Nordstream 1 I built https://www.pipelinestatus.com/ https://www.pipelinestatus.com/
- superphil0 4y agoThis website shows the storage and capacity per country in the EU https://agsi.gie.eu/ https://agsi.gie.eu/
- marbu 4y agoGIE is one of the data sources of the chart. It's noted on the top: > Russian gas flows to Europe, sourced from ENTSO-G, gas storage levels from GIE.
- rasz 4y ago"Tomorrow Russia will take Nord Stream 1 offline" https://twitter.com/PascalLTH/status/1546174453331230721 https://twitter.com/PascalLTH/status/1546174453331230721 and might keep it offline until Germany bends the knee.
- dzhiurgis 4y ago"bends the knee" might be buying gas at 1/10th the price and considering it a huge win for the terrorist state called russia
- redeeman 4y agoand where is this magical supplier of gas that will sell at 1/10 market price? (asking for a friend!)
- dzhiurgis 4y agoRussia has no choice of not selling at extraction cost - stopping production means losses for decades. OPEC cartel will eventually collapse and it will be buyers market. Regulation can make it sooner.
- redeeman 4y agoI dont know what will happen in the future, but as of right now, there is no way to buy at 1/10. Who knows, with the explosion in prices this year, it may well come down shitloads in the future, maybe near future, but that will then simply be market price, as it was 1 year ago when it was much much much cheaper.
- mistrial9 4y agobizarre to see strident, demanding stances among the replies since it is war but no mention of continuous public interest for thirty+ years to transition away from fossil fuels, discounted or ignored. No mention of efficiency anywhere to be found? "nega-watts" is from the 1970s. The current energy mix and its real-politik fossil fuel investors is taking down the biosphere harder than any regional firefight IMHO.
- _xnmw 4y agoIt's far too late to change this. You cannot restructure the energy sources of a whole continent in a few months or even years. This could've been fixed if the West had understood and reacted appropriately to the magnitude of the Russian threat about 10 years ago, as foreseen by academics like Stephen Cohen and businessmen like Bill Browder, instead of blindly falling for its own hubristic self-delusion (which continues till today), i.e. the delusion of considering the West to be omnipotent and the delusion of considering Russia to be an irrelevant, backward, economically insignificant country (Obama famously called it a "regional power" much to the chagrin of Putin). But the West is too decadent, fat, and blind to see anything but its own narrative of post-cold-war unipolar dominance. The worst part is, this delusion of believing in Western omnipotence continues fuelling bad decisions today. I was in Kharkiv, Ukraine when the war hit -- there were two major delusions prevalent in the weeks and months leading up to the war. 1. People believed the war could not happen because we believed our American superpower ally would somehow magically prevent the war or stop it quickly, or 2. we believed our leaders would have the sense to settle with Russia instead of destroying our country. 4 months later after losing 20% of our territory, both fantasies evaporated quickly, but I'm astounded at how many people continue to live in the 3rd fantasy of believing Ukraine could somehow "defeat" Russia while still avoiding WW3. Do people understand what a defeat of Russia would look like? Are you trying to bring a global thermonuclear war apocalypse? What is your endgame here?
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoWhat I find most sad is, how differently we treat eg. USA when they decide to destroy a sovereign country due to their interests, compared to eg. now russia... I'm from slovenia, and we even sent soldiers to help them in afghanistan, and we still have them in syria... somehow noone mentions words like "war", "occupation", "civilian deaths" etc., when our soldiers are there...
- hourago 4y ago> somehow noone mentions words like "war", "occupation", "civilian deaths" etc., when our soldiers are there... Read more newspapers. You can choose: https://www.google.com/search?q=civilians%20dead%20in%20afghanistan https://www.google.com/search?q=civilians%20dead%20in%20afgh...
- londons_explore 4y agoGas to europe isn't the disaster many forsee. If Europe loses gas supplies tomorrow, they would: * Build coal gasification plants (they're fairly simple things, and don't require much special equipment - there are lots that already exist unused and are over 100 years old). Switch about a quarter of towns to 'town gas' rather than natural gas. * cut down heating to only about half of buildings - 'stay with a friend' will be policy for the winter months. * Switch off street lighting and other big non-critical electricity users. * Shut down energy heavy industries - much of this has already happened because energy prices mean it isn't economical to make glass, pottery, aluminium, steel, etc. * Don't interfere much with market prices - allow them to go sky high. But give each premises an energy credit approximately enough to heat and light one room for free - after that you pay sky high prices. Using that strategy, current reserves would last 1 year at least.
- rasz 4y ago>If Europe loses gas supplies tomorrow, they would: There is no IF, NS1 is being turned off tomorrow. https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/80867/ https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/80867/ "Nord Stream AG to shut down both strings of Nord Stream gas pipeline on July 11-21 for scheduled repairs" Most likely scenario at this point is "prolonged servicing" and no gas flow after 21.
- sschueller 4y agoThis maintenance is done every year so I don't see why they would shut it off permanently.
- piva00 4y agoIt's a convenient excuse to keep the pipeline flows as hostage for further negotiations. It happens every year, this year it might not come back on the expected schedule and from then it becomes a dangling carrot to be negotiated.
- londons_explore 4y agoThere are plenty of other gas pipelines into europe. Gas is traded internally all round europe, so 'cutting off' one country doesn't have much impact because they just buy from another. It's the continent-wide energy shortfall that will be the issue, but as OP points out, there are plenty of ways to steeply cut energy use while keeping some semblance of regular life. There are also lots of shuttered coal mines all round europe, many of which could be reopened if necessary, and coal to gas is an option - not done since the 1980's since it cost more, but it might well be back on the cards.
- hintymad 4y agoHonest question: Isn't it true that we should have peace through strength? If so, I don't see how it's a good strategy to have heavy dependency on Russian oil and gas while shutting down a country's own nuclear plants and other energy initiatives and go all in green. Or maybe the strategy is if Russian depletes its natural resources, we will win eventually?
- vfclists 4y ago
- rasz 4y agoThank you, Now I get it. Its the US bullying that was the cause for Ukraine invasion! This and Germany.
- vfclists 4y agoLook up the term realpolitik. The US invaded Grenada and Panama when the regimes there threatened her interests and changed them. Why do you think that is a privilege reserved only for the US? If you don't want to accept that sanctions imposed on Russia prior to this ware are a form of warfare you can't be helped. That is the thrust of my argument. Putin understands very well, and simply said F those b*ches I am going in hard!!
- rasz 4y ago'Sanctions imposed on Russia prior to this war' were a direct answer to 2014 Crimea invasion. You are repeating 'US made me do it' bullshit rhetorics, invalidated by putin himself when he got honest for once https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-putin-comparison-tsar-scary-rcna33344 https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-put... https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putin-admits-ukraine-invasion-is-an-imperial-war-to-return-russian-land/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putin-adm...
- vfclists 4y agoCrimea never belonged to Ukraine. It was in the Soviet era that Crimea was made part of Ukraine. Once an Ukrainian govt hostile to Russia took over it was inevitable that Russian tanks would move in. Why do guys like you think that Russia is ready to cut of direct control of a port important to its maritime and naval operations? When America invaded Panama to guarantee its control of the Panama canal where were you? When Britain tried to wrest control of the Suez canal back from Egypt after Egypt nationalized it, which the US deliberately sabotaged where were you? Ukraine has been invaded simply because Russia will not tolerate a Government serving a hostile US on its border.
- timonoko 4y agoLuckily Europe has endless resource of renewable energy. And that is peat. Finnish peat fields alone surpass oil reserves of Norway. Also money-vice. Gas generation from peat is simple process.
- skeptically 4y agoSaying pete is renewable is like saying aquifers are renewable. You're not wrong, but how much can you extract renewably? Any amount extracted above that is like burning coal for CO2 purposes. Also, pete is incredibly dirty in terms of air quality.
- moistly 4y agoThe comments here are IMO definitive proof that Democracy is doomed because its citizens DGAF: too many are all too willing to lick the boots of the nearest authoritarian so long as they aren’t too terribly inconvenienced. Y’all gonna get what you deserve… I just wish your foolishness wasn’t going to drag me down with you.
- lostmsu 4y agoNah, just a few vocal dudes. Ukraine continues to fight.