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Taxi Drivers in Switzerland typically earn around 40,700 CHF per year and Uber drivers make roughly the same if working full-time, more if they are working more

Taxi Drivers in Switzerland typically earn around 40,700 CHF per year and Uber drivers make roughly the same if working full-time, more if they are working more than 40-hours a week. Unless the union is able to explicitly explain their claim the Uber is somehow unfair to drivers, to me sounds like the union is just complaining they not getting their member dues. Possible I missed something, so here are my sources: How much Uber drivers make in Switzerland https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/ride-sharing-app-_uber-reaches-400-000-active-users-in-switzerland/45291726 https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/ride-sharing-app-_uber-reaches-... Taxi Driver Average Salary in Switzerland http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=210&loctype=1&job=236&jobtype=3 http://www.salaryexplorer.com/salary-survey.php?loc=210&loct...

sschueller 4y ago
Uber does not pay Social Security, Overtime, workers comp etc. When these people retire they have nothing, this money was effectively stolen from the workers. Unia has successfully sued Uber at the highest courts and Uber recently lost. Geneva has banned Uber and others are expected to follow. There will now be an attempt to recover almost a Billion USD that is owed to drivers from Uber. [1] [1] https://www.unia.ch/de/aktuell/aktuell/artikel/a/19138 https://www.unia.ch/de/aktuell/aktuell/artikel/a/19138
- ratww 4y ago
  > this money was effectively stolen from the workers Yep. And also from the state/taxpayers, as the state will have to spend money to ensure those workers aren't left out in the street when older.
  - Dracophoenix 4y ago
    Uber didn't "steal" anything as competition is not a zero-sum game. Drivers chose contract work over a full-time job, and it's their choice to save their income. Besides, pensions and Social Security aren't shields against elder poverty befalling spendthrifts. They're merely buffers and one's that come at the opportunity cost of being able to take the money at that point in time and investing it.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      > Drivers chose contract work over a full-time job And children chose to work in the coal mines and die of blacklung > pensions and Social Security aren't shields against elder poverty befalling spendthrifts. They're merely buffers By that logic a literal shield is not a shield against swords and arrows, they are merely buffers of stronger material that protects you. They come at the opportunity cost of being able to use the money to hire more soldiers or bribe your enemy.
      - ctoth 4y ago
        > And children chose to work in the coal mines and die of blacklung Are you saying the average Uber driver has no more ability to make decisions for themselves than the average child? Uber drivers cannot consent? I reckon they must also be prevented from buying cigarettes and having sex? This is absurd. An adult entering into a voluntary contract is profoundly different than a child being forced into work, in fact it's the main thing that it means to be an adult. What sort of weird infantilization does this line of logic even come from?
        ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        > An adult entering into a voluntary contract is profoundly different than a child being forced into work, in fact it's the main thing that it means to be an adult Ah, okay, let's deal with adults: can you volunterilly sell your organs, sell yourself into indentured servitude, or into prostitution? Can you buy heroin or uranium? Can you at least open a coalmine without health and safety and let other people agree to work in it when they know they will get blacklung? No, you can't even buy some financial products without proving you are a sophisticated investor. You are not allowed to do shit like that because when we allow business to profit out of misery and misfortune of others, business will purposefully trap unfortunate and vulnerable. It isn't an adult vs another adult -> it's one man vs multi billion dollars of lobbying, marketing and legal department.
        cornel_io 4y ago
- O__________O 4y ago
  - LargeWu 4y ago
    "All the order did was state Uber & Uber Eats must treat drivers going forward as employees and Uber in response pulled out of the market." That they would choose not to do business there at all, rather than pay people what they were entitled, is very telling of an operation that's in the business of exploiting people.
    - kspacewalk2 4y ago
      Is every organization that employs contractors instead of hiring them as employees "in the business of exploiting people"?
      - Jweb_Guru 4y ago
        The ones that call people "contractors" to get around employment laws pretty universally are in that business, yes. Is that controversial?
        noSyncCloud 4y ago
        > Is that controversial? No, of course not. These people aren't arguing in good faith.
        usr1106 4y ago
        Of course it is controversal. There are sucessful businesses like Uber, AirBnB, Amazon etc. that base their success on collecting profits and outsourcing social costs to others. They have a lot of customers among HN readers and quite some supporters. They also get some criticism.
      - kazen44 4y ago
        Heck, there is an entire spectrum of politics which state that pocketing excess value from the productions of others is wage-theft and thus exploitative.
- eternalban 4y ago
  >> the "idea" they can break the law too. There may be a disconnect here for those who are not Swiss. That very "idea" is arguably detrimental to the social health of a country like Switzerland (whose citizens appear to practice a sort of honor system when it comes to social norms and laws), while it may well be a non-issue in most other countries. I think a global company like Uber will have a social impact, whether positive or negative, that very much reflects specific regions or nations, so white knighting Uber as a general proposition is not very sound.
  - kazen44 4y ago
    This is the case for many other european countries aswell. In the netherlands for instance, uber and many others got slapped down hard for circumventing the law according to the literal implementation of the law, instead of taking into account the spirit of the law aswell.
mccorrinall 4y ago
> Taxi Drivers in Switzerland typically earn around 40,700 CHF per year and Uber drivers make roughly the same if working full-time, more if they are working more than 40-hours a week. You’re forgetting that one of these two person needs to pay for a car, car taxes, fuel and insurance by themself.

sschueller 4y ago

Uber does not pay Social Security, Overtime, workers comp etc. When these people retire they have nothing, this money was effectively stolen from the workers. Unia has successfully sued Uber at the highest courts and Uber recently lost. Geneva has banned Uber and others are expected to follow. There will now be an attempt to recover almost a Billion USD that is owed to drivers from Uber. [1] [1] https://www.unia.ch/de/aktuell/aktuell/artikel/a/19138 https://www.unia.ch/de/aktuell/aktuell/artikel/a/19138

ratww 4y ago
> this money was effectively stolen from the workers Yep. And also from the state/taxpayers, as the state will have to spend money to ensure those workers aren't left out in the street when older.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  Uber didn't "steal" anything as competition is not a zero-sum game. Drivers chose contract work over a full-time job, and it's their choice to save their income. Besides, pensions and Social Security aren't shields against elder poverty befalling spendthrifts. They're merely buffers and one's that come at the opportunity cost of being able to take the money at that point in time and investing it.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > Drivers chose contract work over a full-time job And children chose to work in the coal mines and die of blacklung > pensions and Social Security aren't shields against elder poverty befalling spendthrifts. They're merely buffers By that logic a literal shield is not a shield against swords and arrows, they are merely buffers of stronger material that protects you. They come at the opportunity cost of being able to use the money to hire more soldiers or bribe your enemy.
    - ctoth 4y ago
      > And children chose to work in the coal mines and die of blacklung Are you saying the average Uber driver has no more ability to make decisions for themselves than the average child? Uber drivers cannot consent? I reckon they must also be prevented from buying cigarettes and having sex? This is absurd. An adult entering into a voluntary contract is profoundly different than a child being forced into work, in fact it's the main thing that it means to be an adult. What sort of weird infantilization does this line of logic even come from?
      - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        > An adult entering into a voluntary contract is profoundly different than a child being forced into work, in fact it's the main thing that it means to be an adult Ah, okay, let's deal with adults: can you volunterilly sell your organs, sell yourself into indentured servitude, or into prostitution? Can you buy heroin or uranium? Can you at least open a coalmine without health and safety and let other people agree to work in it when they know they will get blacklung? No, you can't even buy some financial products without proving you are a sophisticated investor. You are not allowed to do shit like that because when we allow business to profit out of misery and misfortune of others, business will purposefully trap unfortunate and vulnerable. It isn't an adult vs another adult -> it's one man vs multi billion dollars of lobbying, marketing and legal department.
        cornel_io 4y ago
O__________O 4y ago
- LargeWu 4y ago
  "All the order did was state Uber & Uber Eats must treat drivers going forward as employees and Uber in response pulled out of the market." That they would choose not to do business there at all, rather than pay people what they were entitled, is very telling of an operation that's in the business of exploiting people.
  - kspacewalk2 4y ago
    Is every organization that employs contractors instead of hiring them as employees "in the business of exploiting people"?
    - Jweb_Guru 4y ago
      The ones that call people "contractors" to get around employment laws pretty universally are in that business, yes. Is that controversial?
      - noSyncCloud 4y ago
        > Is that controversial? No, of course not. These people aren't arguing in good faith.
      - usr1106 4y ago
        Of course it is controversal. There are sucessful businesses like Uber, AirBnB, Amazon etc. that base their success on collecting profits and outsourcing social costs to others. They have a lot of customers among HN readers and quite some supporters. They also get some criticism.
    - kazen44 4y ago
      Heck, there is an entire spectrum of politics which state that pocketing excess value from the productions of others is wage-theft and thus exploitative.
eternalban 4y ago
>> the "idea" they can break the law too. There may be a disconnect here for those who are not Swiss. That very "idea" is arguably detrimental to the social health of a country like Switzerland (whose citizens appear to practice a sort of honor system when it comes to social norms and laws), while it may well be a non-issue in most other countries. I think a global company like Uber will have a social impact, whether positive or negative, that very much reflects specific regions or nations, so white knighting Uber as a general proposition is not very sound.
- kazen44 4y ago
  This is the case for many other european countries aswell. In the netherlands for instance, uber and many others got slapped down hard for circumventing the law according to the literal implementation of the law, instead of taking into account the spirit of the law aswell.

mccorrinall 4y ago

> Taxi Drivers in Switzerland typically earn around 40,700 CHF per year and Uber drivers make roughly the same if working full-time, more if they are working more than 40-hours a week. You’re forgetting that one of these two person needs to pay for a car, car taxes, fuel and insurance by themself.