4 ms·

Weird to recommend not starting on the most relevant language (C#) but instead with C and Scheme... Sounds more like "old-hats" regurgitating their learning pr

by Volpe 15y ago

Weird to recommend not starting on the most relevant language (C#) but instead with C and Scheme... Sounds more like "old-hats" regurgitating their learning process. Why the line is always drawn with C as well, is interesting. Not assembly, not Java, or Python... but C. An analogy: Go and learn to use a mouse and keyboard, before you get an iPhone, otherwise things like the "On-Screen Keyboard" and the idea of "Touching (Clicking)" things is too difficult to grasp.

bluedanieru 15y ago
You will learn things picking up C that you need when using those other languages, but which might not be immediately obvious if you start with them. Pointers, memory management, et cetera...
burgerbrain 15y ago
If you want to get someone hireable as quickly as possible, tell them to learn C# or Java by all means. But if you want them to "achieve enlightenment", you've got to get them on scheme. And if you want them to see through all the smoke and mirrors, and gaze upon the simplicity that is the machine, you've got to teach them C. Assembly will work too, with the proper arch (and x86 is not it).
- Androsynth 15y ago
  I completely agree with you. I think Joel was answering the 'how do I achieve enlightenment' question. Maybe he only considers someone a programmer if they are enlightened; seems kind of narrow-minded to me.
devs1010 15y ago
I feel the same way, you can still write decent code without knowing all the nitty gritty deep-down details, I'm a firm believer in learning as much as possible about lower-level, Eventually.. but its often a case of Too Much Information for someone starting out and, with Java, for example, it does garbage collection for you, so as long as you learn some basic patterns of use, the code shouldn't become overly maintainable. If they're using C# or Java, I'm pretty sure its not some mission critical app that has to be uber fast or the wheels will fall off of the company's entire operations

by Volpe 15y ago

bluedanieru 15y ago

You will learn things picking up C that you need when using those other languages, but which might not be immediately obvious if you start with them. Pointers, memory management, et cetera...

burgerbrain 15y ago

If you want to get someone hireable as quickly as possible, tell them to learn C# or Java by all means. But if you want them to "achieve enlightenment", you've got to get them on scheme. And if you want them to see through all the smoke and mirrors, and gaze upon the simplicity that is the machine, you've got to teach them C. Assembly will work too, with the proper arch (and x86 is not it).

Androsynth 15y ago
I completely agree with you. I think Joel was answering the 'how do I achieve enlightenment' question. Maybe he only considers someone a programmer if they are enlightened; seems kind of narrow-minded to me.

devs1010 15y ago

I feel the same way, you can still write decent code without knowing all the nitty gritty deep-down details, I'm a firm believer in learning as much as possible about lower-level, Eventually.. but its often a case of Too Much Information for someone starting out and, with Java, for example, it does garbage collection for you, so as long as you learn some basic patterns of use, the code shouldn't become overly maintainable. If they're using C# or Java, I'm pretty sure its not some mission critical app that has to be uber fast or the wheels will fall off of the company's entire operations