13 ms·

$15000 a year including room isn't bad, but I can still get similar education much cheaper at a nearby CC.

wildrhythms 4y ago
There's also the fact that a CC is accredited, so not only do you get a degree, but you also get credits that can be transferred to another college.
- reaperducer 4y ago
  There's also the fact that a CC is accredited Doesn't the school have to open first, and then get accredited later? Or is it possible to be accredited from day one?
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    True it takes time, as student outcomes and testimonials are part of the accreditation process. But that doesn’t change the calculus for new students. It’s kind of a catch-22, but necessarily so.
    - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
      I would suspect the cost would go up if accredited. So, maybe an early adopter discount in some cases if not this one.
- tolleydbg 4y ago
  I don't think the student who who attend a trade school like this would care in the slightest that it isn't accredited. Taking them at their word that they teach five trades, offer employment at a local construction company, and set students up with an apprenticeship, these students could care less about accreditation or a degree. They'll finish with several years of experience in a trade.
  - jxf 4y ago
    > I don't think the student who who attend a trade school like this would care in the slightest that it isn't accredited. They will if they want to claim tax credits, take out a loan to pay for the education, gain discounts on insurance, continue their education later, and so on.
  - tzs 4y ago
    But if a student doesn’t care about the degree what is the point of going to that school? Would it be cheaper and faster to go to a normal trade school that just teaches trades?
- UIUC_06 4y ago
  > There's also the fact that a CC is accredited One wonders if the accreditation agencies are neutral, or if they're going to say "well, you're not a real school, so we're not going to accredit you."
  - d4mi3n 4y ago
    Can’t speak for the east coast, but the west coast accreditation organization (I forget the name) has a fairly clear set of standards for accreditation that boil down to: 1. Facilities required for accreditation (library, labs, offices, etc) 2. Degree programs and learning objectives (e.g. Bachelors of Computer Science and a list of competencies said degree asserts) 3. Processes and procedures, particularly around course management and curriculum. A big part of this is mapping out your listed degree requirements to classes that either provide those competencies or provide building blocks required for those competencies. E.g. Calc -> Lambda Calc -> Category Theory to provide a lot of fundamental math skills for a proposed CS curriculum. EDIT: found them—the Western Association of Schools and Colleges is the organization that performs accreditations of colleges in California: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Association_of_Schools_and_Colleges https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Association_of_Schoo...
  - Nasrudith 4y ago
    I saw a university accrediting its new engineering department during a tour. It is a bunch of bueracracy and standards as opposed to something adhoc and fiefdom style. In that case the first few waves of graduates were conditionally accredited as graduates were required to accredit. Standards here seemed to be aligned in interests - they want to preserve reputations more than gatekeep. Given the sheer university volume gatekeeping is a dubious approach anyway.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > accreditation agencies are neutral, or if they're going to say "well, you're not a real school, so we're not going to accredit you." Saying "you're not a real school, so we're not going to accredit you" is literally the sole job of an accreditation agency. Well, that and figuring out how to define a "real school".
dragonwriter 4y ago
No, you cannot get the politico-religious indoctrination that is the overt mission of the “Catholoc Studies” education this school offers at your local CC; give the current Supreme Court a few more terms and if you live in a predominantly Catholic state, that may change, but historically the Establishment Clause jurisprudence would prevent it.
- jollybean 4y ago
  Since almost all of the early, 'good' Universities including the entire Ivy League (and of course the much older European schools) literally started as 'Seminaries' to train the Priesthood, and expanded from there, and the very notion of 'University' education in the US and around the world is based on this framework of higher learning, with integrated spiritual aspects, I think the material reality of the situation is a bit more nuanced. Yes, there are issues of Separation of Church and State, yes, the current SCOTUS is a scary in terms of their willingness to bend the constitution ... ... but it's also given that our colleges are by some measures a grift, that communitarian values may not be directly taught as many would like, that far-left ideologues dominate the social and political language, and that many people would like their colleges to at least have some kind of Religious Affiliation though maybe not outright 'Religious School'. This school seems to be really heavy on the 'Catholicism', but I can see something like it where there aren't any 'religious studies' directly, but rather with some affiliation, as resonating quite a lot with people.
  - thebradbain 4y ago
    > Many people would like their colleges to at least have some kind of Religious Affiliation though maybe not outright 'Religious School'. Public universities still have chaplains of various faiths/creeds. There's no problem with that (for now). There is also no issue with student-run clubs affiliated with a given religion, and they're likely still eligible to receive the same type of funding any other club is. The issue is if there is _only_ one faith/creed represented/forced at a public school (and even then, some public university sports teams historically get away with only having a chaplain of one faith [1]). [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/21/why-25-public-universities-have-been-asked-to-drop-their-college-football-chaplains/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/21...
woevdbz 4y ago
This is the kind of premium that practicing Catholic parents may be willing to pay to extend a sanitized, pro-church environment for their children, beyond the Catholic primary schools where these children have gone to before. (And which might have well cost more...)
- tptacek 4y ago
  Marist High School, on the south side of Chicago, which is about as mainstream and middle-class as Chicago Catholic high schools get, is $14k/yr.

There's also the fact that a CC is accredited, so not only do you get a degree, but you also get credits that can be transferred to another college.

reaperducer 4y ago
There's also the fact that a CC is accredited Doesn't the school have to open first, and then get accredited later? Or is it possible to be accredited from day one?
- ModernMech 4y ago
  True it takes time, as student outcomes and testimonials are part of the accreditation process. But that doesn’t change the calculus for new students. It’s kind of a catch-22, but necessarily so.
  - SV_BubbleTime 4y ago
    I would suspect the cost would go up if accredited. So, maybe an early adopter discount in some cases if not this one.
tolleydbg 4y ago
I don't think the student who who attend a trade school like this would care in the slightest that it isn't accredited. Taking them at their word that they teach five trades, offer employment at a local construction company, and set students up with an apprenticeship, these students could care less about accreditation or a degree. They'll finish with several years of experience in a trade.
- jxf 4y ago
  > I don't think the student who who attend a trade school like this would care in the slightest that it isn't accredited. They will if they want to claim tax credits, take out a loan to pay for the education, gain discounts on insurance, continue their education later, and so on.
- tzs 4y ago
  But if a student doesn’t care about the degree what is the point of going to that school? Would it be cheaper and faster to go to a normal trade school that just teaches trades?
UIUC_06 4y ago
> There's also the fact that a CC is accredited One wonders if the accreditation agencies are neutral, or if they're going to say "well, you're not a real school, so we're not going to accredit you."
- d4mi3n 4y ago
  Can’t speak for the east coast, but the west coast accreditation organization (I forget the name) has a fairly clear set of standards for accreditation that boil down to: 1. Facilities required for accreditation (library, labs, offices, etc) 2. Degree programs and learning objectives (e.g. Bachelors of Computer Science and a list of competencies said degree asserts) 3. Processes and procedures, particularly around course management and curriculum. A big part of this is mapping out your listed degree requirements to classes that either provide those competencies or provide building blocks required for those competencies. E.g. Calc -> Lambda Calc -> Category Theory to provide a lot of fundamental math skills for a proposed CS curriculum. EDIT: found them—the Western Association of Schools and Colleges is the organization that performs accreditations of colleges in California: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Association_of_Schools_and_Colleges https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Association_of_Schoo...
- Nasrudith 4y ago
  I saw a university accrediting its new engineering department during a tour. It is a bunch of bueracracy and standards as opposed to something adhoc and fiefdom style. In that case the first few waves of graduates were conditionally accredited as graduates were required to accredit. Standards here seemed to be aligned in interests - they want to preserve reputations more than gatekeep. Given the sheer university volume gatekeeping is a dubious approach anyway.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > accreditation agencies are neutral, or if they're going to say "well, you're not a real school, so we're not going to accredit you." Saying "you're not a real school, so we're not going to accredit you" is literally the sole job of an accreditation agency. Well, that and figuring out how to define a "real school".

dragonwriter 4y ago

No, you cannot get the politico-religious indoctrination that is the overt mission of the “Catholoc Studies” education this school offers at your local CC; give the current Supreme Court a few more terms and if you live in a predominantly Catholic state, that may change, but historically the Establishment Clause jurisprudence would prevent it.

jollybean 4y ago
Since almost all of the early, 'good' Universities including the entire Ivy League (and of course the much older European schools) literally started as 'Seminaries' to train the Priesthood, and expanded from there, and the very notion of 'University' education in the US and around the world is based on this framework of higher learning, with integrated spiritual aspects, I think the material reality of the situation is a bit more nuanced. Yes, there are issues of Separation of Church and State, yes, the current SCOTUS is a scary in terms of their willingness to bend the constitution ... ... but it's also given that our colleges are by some measures a grift, that communitarian values may not be directly taught as many would like, that far-left ideologues dominate the social and political language, and that many people would like their colleges to at least have some kind of Religious Affiliation though maybe not outright 'Religious School'. This school seems to be really heavy on the 'Catholicism', but I can see something like it where there aren't any 'religious studies' directly, but rather with some affiliation, as resonating quite a lot with people.
- thebradbain 4y ago
  > Many people would like their colleges to at least have some kind of Religious Affiliation though maybe not outright 'Religious School'. Public universities still have chaplains of various faiths/creeds. There's no problem with that (for now). There is also no issue with student-run clubs affiliated with a given religion, and they're likely still eligible to receive the same type of funding any other club is. The issue is if there is _only_ one faith/creed represented/forced at a public school (and even then, some public university sports teams historically get away with only having a chaplain of one faith [1]). [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/21/why-25-public-universities-have-been-asked-to-drop-their-college-football-chaplains/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/08/21...

woevdbz 4y ago

This is the kind of premium that practicing Catholic parents may be willing to pay to extend a sanitized, pro-church environment for their children, beyond the Catholic primary schools where these children have gone to before. (And which might have well cost more...)

tptacek 4y ago
Marist High School, on the south side of Chicago, which is about as mainstream and middle-class as Chicago Catholic high schools get, is $14k/yr.