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‘Hit the kill switch’: Uber used covert tech to thwart government raids

DisjointedHunt 4y ago
Non paywalled link: https://archive.ph/pwXKm https://archive.ph/pwXKm
tomohawk 4y ago
> During this era ... government raids occurred with such frequency that the company distributed a Dawn Raid Manual to employees on how to respond Doesn't sound like they broke the law. This seems like the corp equivalent of refusing to answer a police officers questions without counsel present.
- stop50 4y ago
  This sound more like obstruction: "I would give them access to the computer but in the background we cut access"
  - tomohawk 4y ago
    Do authorities in Amsterdam have a legal authority to access Uber information that may not be in country? It sounds like Uber was cutting off such access unless / until such legal authority could be made clear to corporate officers. A police officer can ask you any question they want, but you'd be a fool to answer without legal counsel present.
    - stop50 4y ago
      That depends on the warent
salawat 4y ago
Greyball crosses the line. Period. End of story. That that was tolerated is just jaw dropping to me. Who even implemented such a thing, and walked away with the most astonishing case of lack of foresight as I have seen in all my years?
stevenalowe 4y ago
“In the period covered in the documents, Uber was embarking on an aggressive expansion in countries such as Spain, France, the Netherlands and Belgium — many of which outlawed paid transport in private personal vehicles. Regulators barged in, conducting raid after raid, in an effort to prove Uber was flouting the law, while police conducted stings to catch drivers in the act.” emphasis mine. I can give you a ride to the airport but you can’t pay me for gas or time.
- eesmith 4y ago
  "paid transport" here refers to carpooling for profit. Paying gas money and time for a one-time or occasional ride to the airport doesn't result in profit [1] nor make the driver a chauffeur. [1] There's also maintenance, depreciation, insurance, registration/license fees, and likely more.
  - stevenalowe 4y ago
    perhaps, but it appears (given the Regulators behavior) that the burden would be on me to prove that I didn't "profit" (or intend to profit), and they could also come after you the passenger for violating the taxi-monopoly-laws. The problem isn't Uber, it's the laws.
    - eesmith 4y ago
      Which behavior do you refer to? How many people has this happened to? How hard was it to demonstrate non-guilt? The only English language resources I can find deal specifically with people involved with Uber and Uber-like systems.
      - stevenalowe 4y ago
        The problem isn't Uber, it's the laws.
        eesmith 4y ago

Non paywalled link: https://archive.ph/pwXKm https://archive.ph/pwXKm

> During this era ... government raids occurred with such frequency that the company distributed a Dawn Raid Manual to employees on how to respond Doesn't sound like they broke the law. This seems like the corp equivalent of refusing to answer a police officers questions without counsel present.

stop50 4y ago
This sound more like obstruction: "I would give them access to the computer but in the background we cut access"
- tomohawk 4y ago
  Do authorities in Amsterdam have a legal authority to access Uber information that may not be in country? It sounds like Uber was cutting off such access unless / until such legal authority could be made clear to corporate officers. A police officer can ask you any question they want, but you'd be a fool to answer without legal counsel present.
  - stop50 4y ago
    That depends on the warent

salawat 4y ago

Greyball crosses the line. Period. End of story. That that was tolerated is just jaw dropping to me. Who even implemented such a thing, and walked away with the most astonishing case of lack of foresight as I have seen in all my years?

stevenalowe 4y ago

“In the period covered in the documents, Uber was embarking on an aggressive expansion in countries such as Spain, France, the Netherlands and Belgium — many of which outlawed paid transport in private personal vehicles. Regulators barged in, conducting raid after raid, in an effort to prove Uber was flouting the law, while police conducted stings to catch drivers in the act.” emphasis mine. I can give you a ride to the airport but you can’t pay me for gas or time.

eesmith 4y ago
"paid transport" here refers to carpooling for profit. Paying gas money and time for a one-time or occasional ride to the airport doesn't result in profit [1] nor make the driver a chauffeur. [1] There's also maintenance, depreciation, insurance, registration/license fees, and likely more.
- stevenalowe 4y ago
  perhaps, but it appears (given the Regulators behavior) that the burden would be on me to prove that I didn't "profit" (or intend to profit), and they could also come after you the passenger for violating the taxi-monopoly-laws. The problem isn't Uber, it's the laws.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    Which behavior do you refer to? How many people has this happened to? How hard was it to demonstrate non-guilt? The only English language resources I can find deal specifically with people involved with Uber and Uber-like systems.
    - stevenalowe 4y ago
      The problem isn't Uber, it's the laws.
      - eesmith 4y ago